1. #20541
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Nightborne weren't made from scratch.
    Hitei has a point, they are loosely based off the highborne, except... Dark Elf, for some reason.

  2. #20542
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Nightborne weren't made from scratch.
    But that's the point.
    3DS Friend Code: 5172 - 0620 - 2985

  3. #20543
    Quote Originally Posted by Drekmar View Post
    But that's the point.
    They are somewhere between Worgen and Draenei in terms of potential to be playable.

    Which, neither of those races were expected for various reasons. Point is Draenei didn't exist, worgen did and got a couple updates prior to suddenly being overhauled into playable status.

    Stranger things have happened.

  4. #20544
    Mechagnome Steampunkette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    "We lost the war so we're sorry for coming to your world and trying to wipe out all life, our bad, we're square now leave us alone." Is not a very valid excuse. Of course the humans went after them, were they supposed to just go "Yeah, you do you and rebuild your forces, it's no problem that you exist on this planet soley for the sake of destruction."?
    While under the control of Demons the Horde came to Azeroth to conquer it on behalf of their demonic masters. They finally broke that curse and were made slaves and prisoners, their children shackled from the moment they took their first steps. They escaped slavery through violence and fled across the world, with Thrall trying to convince humans to let the orcs go free to live on their own far away. And even as the Plague was wiping out entire cities, the humans still went "Nah, let's ignore Medivh and go chase those orcs to WIPE THEM OUT". Their goal wasn't to go across the sea and recapture their slaves ('Cause that's certainly noble) but to slaughter every orc. All of them. WC3 minced no words on the intended genocide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    "The Blood Elves" were not used. Kael and his handful of followers (who would go on to betray their own people and work for the Legion) were used in Garithos' plot. You are just making up genocides where they don't exist. An admiral in the military fighting the enemy who has been attacking them for decades is also not "genocide", and at the point where you think attacking someone who is helping your enemy is "genocide" I'm starting to question if you even have any idea what the word means.
    Kael'Thas was at the time a noble person and the last member of the royal family. In the wake of the Dead Scar he gathered up his warriors to join the alliance against the Scourge. He was a hero, not a betrayer.Garithos was a racist piece of human garbage who didn't trust elves because they were elves. He thought they would turn against Lordaeron and he saw their loose alliance with the Naga in order to survive the impossible odds he put them in as direct proof that they weren't worthy of trust or care, and planned to have them ALL executed. You could argue that's not a genocidal act in itself, but the man was pretty clearly a human supremacist, for lack of a better phrase, and would certainly have extended his campaign to the remaining survivors of Silvermoon, had he survived long enough to do it.

    It's not like the other humans would've tried to stop him, after all. They were busy trying to commit genocide on the Orcs, and when the Tauren joined the Fledgling Horde they became worthy of the same outright slaughter in the eyes of the alliance. Slaves escaping their owners was the genesis of the third war between men and orcs, and we must never forget that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    The High Elves changed their name in the wake of the majoirty of their people being slaughtered by Arthas. Not because Garithos tried to off their prince and his direct forces.
    You're right. I blended the events a bit. I could've sworn it was after Kael escaped the prison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    "I-it wasn't us, it was our leaders" and "I-it wasn't us, it was this specific group of our faction" stops being a valid excuse when it happens again, and again, and again, and the entire time the Horde heroes are happily chugging along helping those groups develop and test the plague and build massive bombs and do other scummy shit. It is hilarious that you are pointing to Rodgers and Garithos as examples of why humanity is bad "B-but the Orcs just want peace and the fact that just before that, when uninhibited, they slaughtered an entire planet of peaceful people and then went looking for more people to kill doesn't count!"
    ... while under the control of the Burning Legion. Rogers and Garithos aren't compelled by the greatest evil WoW has had us fight to commit their atrocities. They're just flat out racists on their own. And "It wasn't us, it was our leaders!" holds a ton more weight when you rise up and kill your leaders, or depose them and put them in prison for their crimes. And "It wasn't us, it was this faction" does, too, when that faction takes your rightful leader prisoner, nearly kills her, and is then faced with the mass uprising of your people against that person for their various crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    The Forsaken did nothing wrong! They just tried to make their own place in the world.... by slaughtering innocent farmers in Tirisfal, and the Western Plaguelands, and trying to wipe out the scarlet crusade, who had every right to be there. Why are humans so racist against them! Why aren't undead allowed to just kill people and develop biological weapons in peace! All they want to do is kill innocent mages outside of Dalaran for treasure, and slaughter farmers in Hillsbrad to take the land and plague bomb southshore! Humans are so genocidal, wtf!
    ... are you trying to defend the Scarlet Crusade? They were literally genocidal racists who wanted to kill everyone who wasn't human for fear they'd get the plague and turn against Mankind. The kidnapped and tortured and slaughtered whomever they pleased and were, -later- infiltrated by demons who lead them to become the Scarlet Onslaught.

    Yes. The Forsaken kill farmers in Tirisfal. That's not really up for debate and I don't think there's any justification for that action. But fighting, and killing, the Scarlet Crusade is -absolutely- justifiable. As for Southshore: The plague-bombing there was an act of war during wartime to destroy a port that was supplying weapons and arms to their enemies who were attacking them at the time.

    There's also a difference between Conquest and Genocide. The Forsaken have no intent to "Wipe out all humans" or "Destroy gnome society".

    Again, I'm not saying the Forsaken are pristine innocents in a world of horrors. I'm saying there's evil all over the place with biological weapons on the Horde-Side and Genocidal Furor on the Human Side. Whether these things are equal is up for debate, but they certainly exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    No, Forsaken are not given a choice. That is made clear later in Silverpine where the people of Fenris Isle become Worgen because the Horde player and Val'kyr are killing them and forcibly raising them as ""loyal"" members of the Forsaken. "B-but it's okay to kill people and enslave their bodies, because the body isn't concious anymore!"
    We're shown, clearly, that Forsaken have free will. They're not enslaved by the Banshee Queen. In the Player Starting area and even in the initial text. The argument that they're forcibly making them "Loyal" members is invalid, the canon shows it isn't true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I guess that's why the Royal Apothecary Society is gon--
    I guess that's why after the shit the orcs pulled in Icecrown Garrosh was demo-- oh wait, he was made warchief?
    I guess that's why Sylvanas is dea-- oh wait, she was made warchief?
    The RAS might not be gone, but the members of it who broke from it and tried to rebel and intended to commit genocide are all dead... weird how the whole group isn't blamed for the actions of a reviled and destroyed portion of its constituency...
    Shit the Orcs pulled in Icecrown? I seem to recall both sides having reasons to fight, there... Do you have a specific thing you're referring to?
    Why would Sylvanas be dead? What war crimes did she commit that are reasons to kill her, exactly? The use of Biological weapons/chemical weapons is awful stuff, absolutely, but if you're facing extinction 'cause Garrosh is pulling the same shit Garithos pulled it's time to let the Naga help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Please. The Horde didn't do shit to Garrosh until he started causing casualties to his own faction. They were perfectly willing to let everything he did go, and the shady crap Sylvanas was doing in Silverpine was enough that even Garrosh told her to cut it out. I will also go ahead and remind you that the HORDE did not take him to task, because the HORDE could not even get through the front door of the city. The Night Elves came in and actually did something other than run into a giant scorpion to die by the dozens.
    You're right that the Horde didn't oppose him, initially. He used an iron fist to crush dissent by literally killing anyone who disagreed with him and cowed people into obedience. In fact when he -suspected- Vol'jin might turn on him, he sent assassins to end that threat. But I'll remind you that before the Night Elves got near the gates, the Darkspear Revolution was in full force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Horde apologists are disgusting. Killing innocents across multiple kingdoms is fine if you're "just trying to find your place in the world uwu".

    Nightborne going Horde is awful writing.
    Alliance apologists are disgusting. Slaughtering innocents across multiple continents is fine if you're "Just trying to wipe out an entire species out of racist fear uwu"

    'Cause it's not like the Alliance are sweet babies with candy rattles. Slavery, Genocide, Slaughter of Innocents that look different, culture wars among their own people, encroachment on the territory of ancient peoples with the intent to kill them and take their lands, the aforementioned war crimes and deep seated racism for which there is no response by the political forces in power...
    Last edited by Steampunkette; 2017-10-21 at 01:09 PM.

  5. #20545
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    I just think your logic on why they can't become playable is wrong. They have a basic model now because they didn't want the Nightborne to be Night Elves with the story they wanted to tell in Suramar. Things change during development, my guess is the models were done and they continued to write a story with them. Eventually coming to the realization that in 8.0 they want to add them to the playable roster.

    I mean this logic would assume that Worgen, Goblin, and Blood Elves shouldn't have been made playable. Those races had models in game, and they definitely were player character ready. I'm guessing you think only brand new races can be added. Not against that at all, there's another thread where I posted what I'd want to see.

    Also on the topic of Nightborne going Alliance or Horde....they clearly are being set up as a neutral race. If they join one faction over the other its the ultimate slap in da face.

  6. #20546
    Quote Originally Posted by Directionalk9 View Post
    I just think your logic on why they can't become playable is wrong. They have a basic model now because they didn't want the Nightborne to be Night Elves with the story they wanted to tell in Suramar. Things change during development, my guess is the models were done and they continued to write a story with them. Eventually coming to the realization that in 8.0 they want to add them to the playable roster.

    I mean this logic would assume that Worgen, Goblin, and Blood Elves shouldn't have been made playable. Those races had models in game, and they definitely were player character ready. I'm guessing you think only brand new races can be added. Not against that at all, there's another thread where I posted what I'd want to see.

    Also on the topic of Nightborne going Alliance or Horde....they clearly are being set up as a neutral race. If they join one faction over the other its the ultimate slap in da face.
    You mean like the rage that ensued when blood elves joined the horde? Or maybe when the worgen joined the alliance?

  7. #20547
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    fake database picture
    could you stop linking that DEBUNKED picture? tia

  8. #20548
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    could you stop linking that DEBUNKED picture? tia
    There are two database pictures.

    Parrot says that database picture is real.
    Last edited by Ghargatuloth; 2017-10-21 at 01:09 PM.

  9. #20549
    Its fun that no one is talking about new professions in leak. No one care about professions?

  10. #20550
    Quote Originally Posted by NovaFirefall View Post
    There are two database pictures.
    #1 Kay always links the debunked fake one #2 Bird confirmed that picture as fake

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dadoru View Post
    Its fun that no one is talking about new professions in leak. No one care about professions?
    because we dont get a new profession.

  11. #20551
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    #1 Kay always links the debunked fake one #2 Bird confirmed that picture as fake
    Incorrect, Bird has indicated that this one is real.


  12. #20552
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    This could actually make a good basis for a shadolands expac with Sylvanas as the main protagonist. Since most don't complain after she raises them. We venture in the shadowlands (and even deeper, into the WC hell Arthas mentioned) and experience the terrors the dead see, shedding us more light on Helya/Sylvanas. Could also allow them to re-use the souls of old bosses and just fully deform them into some creatures of death
    I think using the inherent rage people feel when raised to make them kill their friends kinda of makes many resent her.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  13. #20553
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    #1 Kay always links the debunked fake one #2 Bird confirmed that picture as fake

    - - - Updated - - -


    because we dont get a new profession.
    Parrot just said that one is real in IRC
    Quote Originally Posted by Konteil View Post
    no. that wouldnt be vanilla
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion Hazzikostas
    Do you want us to kill memes?

  14. #20554
    Quote Originally Posted by Drekmar View Post
    Playable Nightborne have been mostly debunked dozens of pages ago by Simca.
    Source pls

  15. #20555
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    Source pls
    It was an exaggeration. They are saying it mostly because of the fact that they are like a mob model... Can't wear armor and such.

  16. #20556
    Mechagnome Steampunkette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    I think using the inherent rage people feel when raised to make them kill their friends kinda of makes many resent her.
    That's... really not reflected by the game at all...

    Voss is terrified of being undead because of her horrendously racist upbringing. Marshal Redpath turns to fight against the Forsaken in a suicidal attack on a superior force after being surprised he wasn't mind-controlled into servitude on being resurrected. Valdred Moray is mostly confused about how his hands are from a different corpse but he's chill about being dead and decides to go help Sylvanas and the Forsaken.

    The game shows us that the Valkyr raising (The only kind of Raising that can happen since the Scourge was defeated) explicitly doesn't make you rage out or become mind-controlled or suddenly devote yourself to Sylvanas. You're free-willed individuals with their own intent. When those people in Silverpine rise up and join the Forsaken, they've chosen to do it. 'Cause Sylvanas will gladly let you just walk away, like Voss did. She just doesn't want you condemned to eternal nothingness.

  17. #20557
    Fluffy Parrot Marlamin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaFirefall View Post
    The data page shown was said to be photoshopped by Parrot. But yes, he said he might be wrong about it not being true, but he also said they would have had to have obtained it elsewhere, since it was not sent to the clients we have.

    Essentially someone working with Blizz's systems would have to have gotten that info from one of their computers or something.
    After further review, the 8.0.0 RotL WDBX Editor screenshot is photoshopped in my opinion. I also talked with the guy that makes WDBX editor and he agrees that there's some dodgy stuff going on in the window title/bottom version. However, RotL itself hasn't been disproven/fake. If you don't count OP fabricating "evidence", it has as much proof as any other "leak" that we've seen over the past weeks.

  18. #20558
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    After further review, the 8.0.0 RotL WDBX Editor screenshot is photoshopped in my opinion. I also talked with the guy that makes WDBX editor and he agrees that there's some dodgy stuff going on in the window title/bottom version. However, RotL itself hasn't been disproven/fake. If you don't count OP fabricating "evidence", it has as much proof as any other "leak" that we've seen over the past weeks.
    Yep, pretty much my thoughts on the matter. You are much better at saying it though! Haha

    But on that note, while the RotL database is photoshopped and likely fake, the following database is real, as I believe you've said.

    https://i.imgur.com/lhItso3.jpg

  19. #20559
    Fluffy Parrot Marlamin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaFirefall View Post
    Yep, pretty much my thoughts on the matter. You are much better at saying it though! Haha

    But on that note, while the RotL database is photoshopped and likely fake, the following database is real, as I believe you've said.
    Yeah, as I just mentioned on IRC:

    <@Alram> honestly if you ever suspect a db pic is fake
    <@Alram> you can easily check yourself
    <@Alram> you can extract chrraces.db2 yourself and then opening it in wdbx editor which you can get @ https://github.com/WowDevTools/WDBXEditor/releases
    Last edited by Marlamin; 2017-10-22 at 01:05 AM. Reason: lets not link to my own site in public, poor poor traffic

  20. #20560

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