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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Storm the Sorrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Like I said though, they said it was that the mandatory talents were complex.
    Doesn't seem like they care much if it's just mandatory.
    So literal one-third of our talents being unusable useless unviable placeholders that can't even be considered options is not enough of a reason?
    Ah, I see, they are professional at what they are professionals aswell.
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  2. #22
    Moderator Jester Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    So literal one-third of our talents being unusable useless unviable placeholders that can't even be considered options is not enough of a reason?
    Ah, I see, they are professional at what they are professionals aswell.
    You disappoint Captain Placeholder with your hurtful words.

    But it seems like it's not at the moment.

  3. #23
    Mechagnome Dugna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Covfefe View Post
    Tired of people thinking world-first guilds not bringing a class to a WF kill means the class is shit.
    even in normal and heroic, ret is super low, and those are the numbers they're currently buffing feral on so makes sense completely.

  4. #24
    We need that rework? Yes

    Can we expect we're going to have it? No

  5. #25
    Pit Lord Eurytos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    like adding another button


    what was that spell, Inquisition? I think?

    Bring that back (I played hpally exclusively, other than OW content in mop)
    I didn't mind the idea of inquisition when they came up with it. Many people didn't like it, and I wasn't upset when they finally did away with it...but I like the idea.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rytos/advanced

    If there's one thing I'm not, it's in control.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Covfefe View Post
    Tired of people thinking world-first guilds not bringing a class to a WF kill means the class is shit.
    Why, it's a pretty solid indication when looking at top guilds and what they run which classes are good, and that's a fact.

    If Ret was good, they would use them because their is a plethora of ret players. If it's not, they won't.



    I get tired of people trying to invalidate legitimate facts and statistics, and hard numbers with anecdotal evidence, and sample size of one experiences with said class.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanson View Post
    Why, it's a pretty solid indication when looking at top guilds and what they run which classes are good, and that's a fact.

    If Ret was good, they would use them because their is a plethora of ret players. If it's not, they won't.



    I get tired of people trying to invalidate legitimate facts and statistics, and hard numbers with anecdotal evidence, and sample size of one experiences with said class.
    Pretty much. People are running a ret in mythic because it's good for KJ, and has a few fights it's middle of the pack in. It's not completely horrible, but it's bad enough overall that it deserves a tune, however it's "high enough" that they're ignoring the numbers and focusing on Crusade. I'd rather we were actually at the bottom so we would get attention. Being next to the bottom is much worse.

  8. #28
    Brewmaster Kharli's Avatar
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    I just want to be rid of the #!"¤!"¤!"¤"! holy power..lightcrap that we have..

  9. #29
    The Lightbringer Sett's Avatar
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    Hrmm. Now they've set focus on Frost.
    WIP.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Sett View Post
    Hrmm. Now they've set focus on Frost.
    Yep >.> only hoping something happens for us.

  11. #31
    High Overlord Temna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    Yep >.> only hoping something happens for us.
    Finding it kinda amusing how they are fractured over there between the 2 old builds wishing the other would die whereas we are kinda poking over the fence saying "must be nice" >.>

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Temna View Post
    Finding it kinda amusing how they are fractured over there between the 2 old builds wishing the other would die whereas we are kinda poking over the fence saying "must be nice" >.>
    It makes sense though; the Ret community is not so divided over Crusade that people quit the spec because of it. The Frost community is VERY divided over BoS, with many people quitting the spec for Unholy even before the spec became bottom tier. Havoc can keep both Chaos Blades and Demonic builds relatively close to each other, Frost deserves the same. I am not sure what WE need though, what would be a good alternative to Crusade (I think a talent that gives 3 charges to AW probably would be it)

  13. #33
    Mechagnome Dugna's Avatar
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    even if they don't swap around talents we still need a straight % increase in the magnitude that feral and frost got, then ret can be great aoe and alright in ST.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It makes sense though; the Ret community is not so divided over Crusade that people quit the spec because of it. The Frost community is VERY divided over BoS, with many people quitting the spec for Unholy even before the spec became bottom tier. Havoc can keep both Chaos Blades and Demonic builds relatively close to each other, Frost deserves the same. I am not sure what WE need though, what would be a good alternative to Crusade (I think a talent that gives 3 charges to AW probably would be it)
    Its probably only going to be band-aids right now until the next xpac and they can do another rework. I would like to see DP made baseline again, make crusade baseline for Ret, remove the stacking mechanic of it just have it start off at "full stacks", lower the amount of damage and haste, and remove Wrath of the Ashbringer from the artifact weapon, I would say replace it with a relic that increases the damage of ALL spenders, including Justicars Vengeance and Execution Sentence, these two spells seem very well suited for DP. Finally throw in a flat damage boost to the entire spec. It would (hopefully) make the spec more consistent while lowering burst DPS output. Oh and bring back the sword of light mastery, no more of this fucking judgesmash

  15. #35
    So... i'm not expecting it.

    Quite honestly... i don't think they care. The thing is, Crusade is cool, but it has problems, and i don't think theres a way to solve them in a satisfying manner. Crusade is very powerful with the artifact, but its a damage loss without it.

    So... the only way to balance it, is to make the stacks less prevalent and the base value stronger. So... like starting at 35% damage and gaining 1% damage and 2% haste per stack. But... this just defeats the purpose doesn't it? So, i think crusade is gonna get removed next expansion with the rework we will get and they will just let it run along with minimal fixes for the time beeing. They are purposidly letting us be weak cause they want less backlash when they change things, just like they did to demonology back in WoD.

    That is what i believe the situation to be. I wish they could at least buff mastery until then though.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    So... i'm not expecting it.

    Quite honestly... i don't think they care. The thing is, Crusade is cool, but it has problems, and i don't think theres a way to solve them in a satisfying manner. Crusade is very powerful with the artifact, but its a damage loss without it.

    So... the only way to balance it, is to make the stacks less prevalent and the base value stronger. So... like starting at 35% damage and gaining 1% damage and 2% haste per stack. But... this just defeats the purpose doesn't it? So, i think crusade is gonna get removed next expansion with the rework we will get and they will just let it run along with minimal fixes for the time beeing. They are purposidly letting us be weak cause they want less backlash when they change things, just like they did to demonology back in WoD.

    That is what i believe the situation to be. I wish they could at least buff mastery until then though.
    They have scrapped masteries during a patch several times actually (like with Frost mage or WW monk). IF they wanted to, they could easily scrap the ret mastery and give us a new one (or even an old one, like the WoD mastery).

    I don't think Crusade is a problem. It's a fun mechanic and the stacks make it work. The problem is that it is the only gameplay available. There is far too much synergy on Avenging Wrath and since the only talent that improves AW is Crusade we are naturally forced to pick that. They have two options here; either fuck the synergy up like they just did with Frost or change the last talent tier so every talent augments AW in some way and thus give us additional ways to play.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Storm the Sorrow's Avatar
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    No such thing as "too much synergy".
    But there can be not enough synergy, or none at all.
    See: Retribution talent tree.
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  18. #38
    Frost just got a "rework" aswell, maybe we can dream.

  19. #39
    I assume "our round" is coming up; Feral and Frost have been in a bad place most of this expansion, so they went first. Just the mere fact they addressed, for Frost, all the effort/synergy being pumped into a single ability shows (in addition to their past comments) that they want to break a reliance on Crusade. It's kinda like doing "spec triage;" you attend to the ones in the worst shape and go from there.

    I really like how Ion operates, it's miles better than the last guy's "If you don't like the other talents, don't take them, now get lost" attitude.
    Last edited by Bormec; 2017-07-15 at 04:36 PM.

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Storm the Sorrow's Avatar
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    Well there's that, he's less of a raging bag of frothing manhoods that is Tom Mace Stun Chilton.
    Be wary of the ones who yell: "Off with the satire!", for trash is always displeased with the broom.

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