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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    Nah m8. The OP has a 3% grey parse where he died early so clearly he must be wrong. And since he's wrong you're wrong too.
    Damn, can't argue with that.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Sup...

    Rank 1 Destro at Goroth with ilvl 922 using 2pc19+4pc20,Prydaz,Soul Conduit. As ilvl 922 too, 10 guys below me are all ilvl 928-934.

    So yeah, it works ok, at the very least it is a decent alternative to usual Lessons trope.
    922 With a 965 Arcano, so you're more like 928~ if you were using trinkets from ToS/TF'd trinkets from elsewhere. What about the godlike snatcher/belt/conduit procs?

    Seems a bit disingenuous all in all. I'd only call it a decent alternative for people who find demonfire too hard to play with.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Xern View Post
    922 With a 965 Arcano, so you're more like 928~ if you were using trinkets from ToS/TF'd trinkets from elsewhere. What about the godlike snatcher/belt/conduit procs?

    Seems a bit disingenuous all in all. I'd only call it a decent alternative for people who find demonfire too hard to play with.
    First of all many of those below me have Arcano AND ilvl 928+, if I replace my Arcano with 935 tome my ilvl becomes 927 and I did not have exceptionally amazing proc rates on shards either. Just a bit more than average from Belt, SC and SS.

    So you can bitch all you like, but your claim that I somehow had some godlike RNG or my ilvl is artificially lower do not play out.

    If you think I can't play CDF - you are out of your mind because I play it just fine on many other encounter with 90%+ parses.

    You are just a closed minded baddie, nothing more.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2017-07-14 at 11:12 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Sup...

    Rank 1 Destro at Goroth with ilvl 922 using 2pc19+4pc20,Prydaz,Soul Conduit. As ilvl 922 too, 10 guys below me are all ilvl 928-934.

    So yeah, it works ok, at the very least it is a decent alternative to usual Lessons trope.
    Congrats, really nice results! I think this setup might score the best results for normal and hc becouse of lucky sc procs but you did it on mythic which is nice. Ofc it should perform well no matter what. I sometimes change when i like to play with sc or demonfire but for progression i would use prydaz and 2pc t19 for sure. DPS is the same but extra protection from prydaz is very good and you may proc crazy sc streaks.

    For affliction it seems its best to use the hood and the master harvester instead of 2pc t19 for 10% stronger UA.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kridlock View Post
    For affliction it seems its best to use the hood and the master harvester instead of 2pc t19 for 10% stronger UA.
    It's offtopic, but is master harvester really better than the DE ring? I tried master harvester and there were actually some tries on Sisters where I had 1 harvester proc over 80% of the fight.

  6. #26
    Mind if I roll need? xskarma's Avatar
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    First of all many of those below me have Arcano AND ilvl 928+, if I replace my Arcano with 935 tome my ilvl becomes 927 and I did not have exceptionally amazing proc rates on shards either. Just a bit more than average from Belt, SC and SS.

    So you can bitch all you like, but your claim that I somehow had some godlike RNG or my ilvl is artificially lower do not play out.

    If you think I can't play CDF - you are out of your mind because I play it just fine on many other encounter with 90%+ parses.

    You are just a closed minded baddie, nothing more.
    Lets see then.

    You spent a total of 56 shards in 4:26. 20% of that is roughly 11. Your conduit gave you back 17 shards. That is around 35% above the average.
    You casted a total of 123 fire spells. 6% of that would be about 7. But you gained 13 shards from the belt instead, almost doubling your intended shard gain.
    You casted 51 CBs, regaining a total of 11 shards back from the trait. 12% of that would be 6. Again, you gained almost double the shards you'd get back on an average pull.

    How can you argue that this is not godlike rng? You're getting almost double the average procs on all 3 of your shard refunds/regens.

    If you want to bring percentiles into it, that's a battle youre gonna lose. While I can't give you logs from legion seeing as we log privately now, you're free to check my hellfire parses, or perhaps you'd just prefer a simple armory. Either way, I wasn't trying to flame or bitch at you as you claim. I don't know why you took it as a personal attack. Conduit will simply not outperform demonfire on average. If you're willing to play lotto every pull, be my guest. Likewise if you can't handle demonfire. But to try and pass it off as equal is ridiculous.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Xern View Post
    Lets see then.

    You spent a total of 56 shards in 4:26. 20% of that is roughly 11. Your conduit gave you back 17 shards. That is around 35% above the average.
    You casted a total of 123 fire spells. 6% of that would be about 7. But you gained 13 shards from the belt instead, almost doubling your intended shard gain.
    You casted 51 CBs, regaining a total of 11 shards back from the trait. 12% of that would be 6. Again, you gained almost double the shards you'd get back on an average pull.

    How can you argue that this is not godlike rng? You're getting almost double the average procs on all 3 of your shard refunds/regens.

    If you want to bring percentiles into it, that's a battle youre gonna lose. While I can't give you logs from legion seeing as we log privately now, you're free to check my hellfire parses, or perhaps you'd just prefer a simple armory. Either way, I wasn't trying to flame or bitch at you as you claim. I don't know why you took it as a personal attack. Conduit will simply not outperform demonfire on average. If you're willing to play lotto every pull, be my guest. Likewise if you can't handle demonfire. But to try and pass it off as equal is ridiculous.
    a. You can simply use simc and verify the setup is fine, it's not like it's feelscraft here. You just rolled in and started talk smack as if it's some ungodly luck while in reality it's just a bit better than average RNG and nothing extraordinary as in short fight length or other stuff.

    b. In regards to RNG - my Soul Conduit rate is 15.7% on that encounter - 17 shards out of 108, belt proc rate at 7.4% being 13 shards out of 174 spells you forgot that Chaos Bolt also procs Feretory and finally - my Soulsnatcher is at 15% because I have relic with it so it's at 5 for me - I got indeed better rate at it, standing at 21%.

    But all in all - there is absolutely no freaky RNG you claim here. I did get a bit lucky but just that and not some god parade of planets thing you push, which brings me to another point.

    c. All top parses have a measure of luck in them and this includes those below me, so I don't see why you unfairly single out me as some freak occurrence, while the guys below me are nothing of sort. I'm not even talking that all my luck was 1 extra shard from Feretory and 3 extra shards from Soulsnatcher. Dayum that uber RNG dude. Heck, not all rosy on that street - I got only 9 Conflagration of Chaos procs instead of expected 15, that's quite a bit of damage lost there.


    Problem with you is as follows:

    1. You are out of date, seeing your Feretory note
    2. You think people are idiots.

    I did not just go ahead and equip random shit gear I had around because "lol it's my way of the ninja", I simmed my ass off with many gear and talent combinations and the conclusion I ended up with is that 2pc19 with 4pc20, SC+Feretory is indeed a viable setup as it sims pretty much same as any other setup with CDF with 4pc20 and higher ilvl pieces for me, while giving me a freedom to not use Lessons and instead use other legos, like Prydaz for progression at almost no DPS loss and I verified that it is just fine with my parses. If I replace Prydaz with Spite - this combo instantly becomes better than any combination I can manage with CDF and Lessons, while with Prydaz it's merely on par.

    So yeah, I don't see why you assume it's not a viable setup or comparable, because it is, especially when Havoc is in play. So I don't see why you are actively trying to shit on it, where the evidence points to contrary.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2017-07-14 at 03:52 PM.

  9. #29
    Yeah, you're correct. I actually miscalculated the total shards really bad since I spent about 5mins going through the log. I also didn't check your relics, just assumed. So I'm pretty much full of shit. But I don't think I'd consider this build for progress anyway unless it simmed a good 25-30k higher just because of consistency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    2. You think people are idiots.
    How is this any different from your condescending tone in every post and instantly assuming anyone who disagrees is a baddie moron? Seems like we should be best friends.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Xern View Post
    Yeah, you're correct. I actually miscalculated the total shards really bad since I spent about 5mins going through the log. I also didn't check your relics, just assumed. So I'm pretty much full of shit. But I don't think I'd consider this build for progress anyway unless it simmed a good 25-30k higher just because of consistency.



    How is this any different from your condescending tone in every post and instantly assuming anyone who disagrees is a baddie moron? Seems like we should be best friends.
    Nice to meet you then, we will have a long and good relationship here.

    At any rate, if you sim various setups the conclusion is that this mix is fine and it is clearly great anytime you can Havoc, that's like no-brainer there, I'd expect even you agree on that.

    Consistency-wise you can sim that as well, the RNG difference is merely being Soul Conduit against Rift refunds - it ends up being quite similar spread.

    The main selling point of this mix is that you gain 1 legendary slot to use for something like Prydaz or Sephuz with almost no baseline DPS loss, I don't understand why you don't consider being able to equip Prydaz at almost no loss during progress to not be valuable.

    I personally really enjoy that fact, where everyone and their mothers are asked to equip Prydaz and cry blood tears about it on Sisters of The Moon, while I barely lose anything and on top of that roll in 0.8s cast Chaos Bolt Havoc spam on Moontalon when it pops up thanks to 2pc19.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2017-07-14 at 04:28 PM.

  11. #31
    this whole thread is amusing

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Xern View Post
    . But I don't think I'd consider this build for progress anyway unless it simmed a good 25-30k higher just because of consistency.
    .
    That seems kind of ridiculous. If you can do a build that allows you to use Prydaz and the extra survivability it provides while having the same DPS on a progression fight - why on earth wouldn't you?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaman View Post
    That seems kind of ridiculous. If you can do a build that allows you to use Prydaz and the extra survivability it provides while having the same DPS on a progression fight - why on earth wouldn't you?
    I know I didn't. I used Prydaz on mythic sisters progression and it was

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post

    I personally really enjoy that fact, where everyone and their mothers are asked to equip Prydaz and cry blood tears about it on Sisters of The Moon.

    Geez man, this happens in my guild. Bunch of people with Pyrdaz who won't equip them. Bunch of dps whores who would rather have top dps and often die than kill the boss. It's pathetic. We're probably going to end up having to make Prydaz a requirement soon.

    PSA: Prydaz is F'n amazing for progression. OP actually. My healers love me.
    Last edited by Liarparadox; 2017-07-15 at 04:57 AM.

  15. #35
    Prydaz was my last legendary and then the new ones came out and I got both of the new ones and still don't have prydaz

    This setup will really depend on how lucky you were with t19 upgrades as our set bonuses are really weak. My highest dps setup for a while was using 2p t20 and just my highest ilvl pieces because our tier bonuses are that weak and I had much higher ilvl nontier pieces.

    Everything I've simmed between different setups is all within a few % of each other, meaning you can realistically play whichever and will have pulls where you RNG above the average of all the others. Pretty much a play what you like and hope for the best situation.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  16. #36
    As destro I'm lowest or second lowest external healing required on sisters without prydaz using demon skin. Prydaz is a fine legendary but a Warlock doesn't need it for progress if they do mechanics properly. Best dps varies based on individual gear. Sim yourself and profit

  17. #37
    I dont have it but the talent lege ring + feretory and 2pc 19 4pc t20 sc may work really well if prydaz is not needed. Have really good synenergy with eachother.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kridlock View Post
    I dont have it but the talent lege ring + feretory and 2pc 19 4pc t20 sc may work really well if prydaz is not needed. Have really good synenergy with eachother.
    Again really depends on if you got lucky with your t19 pieces, as the set bonus isn't strong enough to make up for much of an ilvl drop + the weaker talent. Using the setup your mentioning I simmed lower than only having 2p t20 and just wearing higher ilvl pieces.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  19. #39
    My gear got better expect t19 pieces, and i tested prydaz,t19,t20 again and the difference was even smaller. I used wrong pieces becouse i just quickly equiped highest ilvl. Had like 23% haste but much mastery. it simmed about 1.056m vs 1.065m with bis and best gear. Very good dps for a build which let you use prydaz or other lege instead of lessons.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerwo View Post
    this whole thread is amusing
    Could you please ask your guild to stop giving you all the relics? I'm feeling insecure.

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