1. #1
    Mechagnome Ailylia's Avatar
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    Best way to use The Deceiver's Grand Design

    Just got this trinket last night. Wondering how priests are using this trinket.

    Do you start the fight by setting it instantly on the two tanks, or do you want to keep a charge for if your primary target spikes below 35%?

    If multiple healers in raid have it, do you want to each pick a tank and hold a stack or do you want to stack the hots on both tanks? (I read where the 35% proc will only happen once, regardless)

    Any other tips?

  2. #2
    I'd imagine you just put it on both tanks and then re-apply as necessary, but I guess you could also use it as as a live-saving CD, using it to pop an instant 1.6m shield on a low health target.

    If multiple people have it, yeah, I suppose it'd be best to coordinate each person putting 1 charge on each tank and saving the other one for emergencies/re-application on that tank.
    Guide for setting up VuhDo to track shields/absorbs

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  3. #3
    putting it into the bank then disenchanting it come 8.0

  4. #4
    I always put it instantly on the tanks all the time (if it's a instance i keep one charge for me when i know some dangerous pull will come or when i know that i will be taking damage).

    Be careful as the stacks reset when entering boss fights, they also drop from the targets.
    The trinket does the most healing when it does not proc the shield, there is no reason to not have it on the tanks ( the CD for the charge is exactly the duration of the HoT).

  5. #5
    The main factor against it is that many tanks have powerful auto-stabilizing mechanisms that trigger on low health and are designed to dip now and then without risk. With the large health buffer for tanks, it's very efficient to healers to heal at at health deficit/dip the tank with shaman(mastery)/druid(deep rooted)/disc(tof)/paladin(beacon trait) encounter allowing and personal judgement for leeway.

    Any situation where the tank needs to be topped off completely due to encounter mechanics, then DGD isn't contributing much. Any attrition based encounters then DGD has anti synergy with auto-stabilizing mechanisms.
    Having said that, the hps this thing puts out can't be overlooked, it is definitely on the above average side. Can be good on specific encounter types.

    The real overlooked trinket is barbaric mindslaver, int main stat and secondary proc is budgeted above baseline when you include mastery and most importantly: it works when you need it too, with regard to overhealing and mana contraint. But the current state of Velens completely overpowers all other trinkets and DMC/Seastar is the defacto complementary.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Ailylia's Avatar
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    I don't have a star yet, but I do like the DGD and just wish I could get Vuhdo to track it for me better, though I have a decent weakaura. My main thought around it is above and beyond the constant free HOT it's basically adding 2 million health to the target, so if there's a soak mechanic that is going to eat 6-7 million health you can use it almost like a ghetto GS.

    I guess it depends on your tank really. Last night I had a warrior and a druid and the warrior almost never dipped below 35 but the druid was constantly. Not necessarily a class thing but based on the gear and players behind the toons. If you have tanks that stay above 35 its a really nice trinket.

  7. #7
    I haven't been using this on my holy priest but I have been on a resto druid. What I've been finding is that in normal, keeping it on tanks seems to be okay. Requires some focus on my part but generally I can get at least a minute out of them. I would generally agree with others that you should put it on tanks. What I don't like is that this is pushing me to change my healing to focus on tanks with the buff to keep it going for as long as possible.

    Getting into heroic (even normal with lots of raid damage), I've been thinking that you might be better off putting it on a dps or another heal. You'll be more likely to get the full 2 minutes out of it.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by tclphz View Post
    I haven't been using this on my holy priest but I have been on a resto druid. What I've been finding is that in normal, keeping it on tanks seems to be okay. Requires some focus on my part but generally I can get at least a minute out of them. I would generally agree with others that you should put it on tanks. What I don't like is that this is pushing me to change my healing to focus on tanks with the buff to keep it going for as long as possible.

    Getting into heroic (even normal with lots of raid damage), I've been thinking that you might be better off putting it on a dps or another heal. You'll be more likely to get the full 2 minutes out of it.
    Eh, IMO the point is not to "get the full 2 minutes out of it", but that the trinket acts as a tank-saving cooldown. That utility of saving the tank from death is far greater than the healing you'd gain from having it last the whole 2 minutes.
    Guide for setting up VuhDo to track shields/absorbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Eh, IMO the point is not to "get the full 2 minutes out of it", but that the trinket acts as a tank-saving cooldown. That utility of saving the tank from death is far greater than the healing you'd gain from having it last the whole 2 minutes.
    I recognize that. I meant to write in that I'm tempted to play incorrectly since instead I'll try to maximize my healing (I pug a lot).
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  10. #10
    Mechagnome Ailylia's Avatar
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    Yeah after playing around with it for a while there are a few things I've learned.

    I know it sounds obvious when you read the tooltip but if you throw it on someone who is already below 35% health the shield does not proc so you can't use it to 'save' someone retroactively, you have to keep it rolling so it makes the most sense to leave it on a tank or you can throw it on someone who you know is about to take a ton of damage if you want to use it in that fashion.

    Although I like saving my extra charge for someone who ends up with a stronger long dot than normal, like two stacks of armageddon on KJ for example, just helps negate that ticking damage and provide a cushion for some burst coming out for that person.

    I think HPS wise this trinket is marginal, I typically see 6-8% of my healing coming from the proc (not counting the mastery). But the utility to be able to proactively grant a buffer is really nice for progression I think. Though honestly, if I had a higher ilvl Cake I would probably still prefer that, but my cake is only 905. I do swap in the cake still for Mistress for those Shot+Other ability combos that line up exactly every 2 minutes.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Heathy's Avatar
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    i'm using tdgd and barbaric mindslaver, its a decent combo, the deceivers often stops tanks from dying but it also works on thin classes that often die a lot, like enhancement shamans. in heroic theres a good chance whoever you put it on will eventually proc the shield within those 2 minutes but i think tanks get the most healing from the ticking hot effect seeing as they consistently take damage theres more chance that a tick will heal rather than overheal. its basically like guardian spirit in a trinket proc, the 2mil shield will give you enough buffer to actually top up the tank in those situations where the tank takes successive hits and procs the effect.

    I got a 900 archive of faith as well, i would like to get a higher ilvl one of those thats another trinket with a tank saving use effect like having a second serenity.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2017-07-21 at 09:01 AM.

  12. #12
    I've had it for about 2 weeks now its one of the best healing trinkets so far in my opinion, although as disc I haven't really had the opportunity to enjoy non mana regen trinkets till now so my opinion is bias to this tier.

    Functionally its an awesome 2 minute long hot with a life saving absorb proc, best used on tanks since you will only get around 3-4 casts a fight and although you can't stack your own trinkets buffs you can stack with other trinkets which should give your tanks one hell of an oh crap buffer.

    Side note in regards to this trinket, it shows up as two abilities on healing meters, Guiding Hand and Fruitful Machinations with the latter being the absorb. The healing side does roughly 6-8% of your healing but the absorb can add around 3% to that on a bad day and zero on the good ones i.e when your tanks aren't exploding.

    I find rolling the trinket on both tanks first thing is the standard thing to do but you could probably get more use from the first 2 charges sticking them elsewhere, at later phases though the trinket shines on tanks when stacked with other healers trinkets, 1.5-2mil absorb proc on low health per trinket, your tanks will love you.

  13. #13
    Warchief Supliftz's Avatar
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    The best use of this trinket is to place it on non-tank targets taking sustained damage. Something like wither from desolate host, or armageddon debuffs from KJ comes to mind.

    Just blindly putting it on tanks in a world where Holy Paladin t20 4pc exists is terrible. While yes, you might see a consistent HPS increase from this, it is not at all useful.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Ailylia's Avatar
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    Well, my raid doesn't have holy paladins, so I'm making do...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ailylia View Post
    I don't have a star yet, but I do like the DGD and just wish I could get Vuhdo to track it for me better, though I have a decent weakaura. My main thought around it is above and beyond the constant free HOT it's basically adding 2 million health to the target, so if there's a soak mechanic that is going to eat 6-7 million health you can use it almost like a ghetto GS.

    I guess it depends on your tank really. Last night I had a warrior and a druid and the warrior almost never dipped below 35 but the druid was constantly. Not necessarily a class thing but based on the gear and players behind the toons. If you have tanks that stay above 35 its a really nice trinket.

    I added guiding hand as a custom debuff in vuhdo and it seems to track it that way with no problems

  16. #16
    To optimize it, you'd want to start by using one charge on the tank that is going to be tanking the boss first. Once the switch off mechanic happens, then you would want to apply the second charge on the second tank. From then on, you keep refreshing as it is needed. If there is consistent damage that would be still benefit from a charge on a non-tank character, you can also use it on them happily (ex. Mistress fight with rolling debuff, people with high stacks on Harjatan, soakers, etc.).. If you really want to pull some life-saving stuff then you'd use it on the targets who seem to be the squishiest/die the most often - if you know X-person dies a lot, pop it on them.. etc.

    Gl, happy healing.

  17. #17
    I personally use it as a bootleg Prydaz and use it on myself.
    The amount of times it saved my ass because i forget to heal myself is quite something.

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