Cinderstorm too bad or too complicated to use?

[sifting]

Switched back to it for m+ like 3 weeks ago - didn't aggroed anything through walls.

I like this talent, i get better results in m+ than with meteor and i really enjoy the playstyle

go try it in brh or maw you'll see what i mean

[Alvito]

The walls inside the lowest level until you get to the stairs wont stop it. A few other aoe abilties can travel through them too, it isn't just cinder.

[The Archmage]

I personally dislike the ability: it interrupts the "flow" of the spec way to often, it messes up with Pyretic Incantation and it aggroes stuff you're not supposed to aggro more often than not. I am in favor of a hefty redesign or a straight removal next expac.

[Deztru]

Takes up a global every ~8 seconds which is really counterproductive for Fire

[rakhakash]

Love to use it. It's something to think about when doing your rotation, which by itself is not hard at all.

Oh and ofcourse the risky factor. Same like with Hunter's Barrage.

[twistedmynd]

Cinderstorm is great at AoE damage. All 3 mage specs have the same general thing going in that row, you have your aoe talent, your single target talent, and your cooldown talent.

However, you can game kindling in m+ to make use of the waves of aoe damage pattern to push higher total numbers so most are using that. The wave pattern of big aoe up front, then single target the remaining adds, then run to next pack. You should be combusting at the beginning of every new pack.

Using a sim comparing meteor to cinderstorm: cinderstorm is a big loss in single target situations (up to 10%) where meteor is not as big of a loss in aoe situations (2%), so most players will default to meteor.

==

On topic, it's a little bad and there are lots of tuning ways to fix that. But it's not too complicated to use. You can almost guarantee perfect positioning if you practice with it even after a few runs. The hidden "trick" outside of positioning with it is game pyratic incantation.

[mireigi]

For raiding, Cinderstorm is a bad talent, except in high cleave situations.

For Mythic Plus, however, it is quite good. It provides a lot of burst on a short cooldown against groups of enemies, which is where the majority of the challenge lies in higher MPs. Combine it with Incanter's Flow, and it is quite versatile as well, allowing you to reposition easily, without losing (too much) damage.

If anything was to be done with it, it would be that the Pyrotex Ignition Cloth Gloves should combo with it for a 1 second Combustion cooldown reduction per cast that hits at least one enemy, making Cinderstorm nearly equal to Phoenix's Flames in terms of reducing Combustion cooldown.

[Deleted]

Some issues i have with cinderstorm:
- Added risk of pulling extras
- Too low CD while needing extra work to use (double CD)
- Too many abilities during those moments as you want to use RoP as well.
- Aiming being different depending on distance

[Deleted]

Some issues i have with cinderstorm:
- Added risk of pulling extras
- Too low CD while needing extra work to use (double CD)
- Too many abilities during those moments as you want to use RoP as well.
- Aiming needs to be different depening on distance

I perfectly agree; the damage is only worth with perfect positioning, but then the time lost if you have to move for that at every CD or so does not nearly compensate for the losses.

[Miradian]

It's just a poor talent overall. It (might) be good on mistress or host but other than that there isn't really any fights where it's a really good fit.

The skill requires you to be perfect on single target fights and if you like playing at the highest ability level possible without any room for error, then you should go with cinder.

Otherwise while raiding, (depending on lego) Kindling or Meteor are much better skills. They are more fluid with the spec, while cinderstorm is really counter intuitive to the rotation as a whole.

Cinderstorm is probably better in M+, but I still think Kindling is the goto skill.

[Nyel]

If anything was to be done with it, it would be that the Pyrotex Ignition Cloth Gloves should combo with it for a 1 second Combustion cooldown reduction per cast that hits at least one enemy, making Cinderstorm nearly equal to Phoenix's Flames in terms of reducing Combustion cooldown.

This unfortunately will never happen due to talents not being affected by Legendaries at all.

[klaps_05]

shouldve been like meteor - similar cd, a lot more dmg(like each cinder doing Meteor dmg), and even then it might not be good enough cause shit pulls more than old barrage.

[Obelisk Kai]

Let's be blunt. Cinderstorm is a talent we are all waiting for Blizzard to iterate in the 8.0 beta server.

And by iterate I mean remove from the game and replace with something we might actually use.

Even from the day it was introduced I could see it was an extremely niche ability that would likely prove to finnicky to use consistently and that it would see very low usage rates as a result.

Maybe Blizzard ran out of ideas and just threw something into the slot towards the end, who knows. But this talent is tolerable so long as it is not mandatory and can be ignored...until it's inevitable removal.

[Lamortykins]

I've found it outperforms meteor on Mistress (remember meteor is split damage but cinderstorm isn't) as long as you keep ignite up on everything. Other than that it's not great.

[Racthoh]

i like the idea of a positional ability but maybe they should try something besides one that curves hard to the left? just don't go back to flame orb that was beyond awful.

[The Archmage]

Let's be blunt. Cinderstorm is a talent we are all waiting for Blizzard to iterate in the 8.0 beta server.

And by iterate I mean remove from the game and replace with something we might actually use.

Even from the day it was introduced I could see it was an extremely niche ability that would likely prove to finnicky to use consistently and that it would see very low usage rates as a result.

Maybe Blizzard ran out of ideas and just threw something into the slot towards the end, who knows. But this talent is tolerable so long as it is not mandatory and can be ignored...until it's inevitable removal.

I think Phoenix's Flames (perhaps some modified/renewed version) will be the most obvious candidate, since we will lose the ability by unequipping the artifact. I personally would like to see a "line like" ability, maybe a bigger Phoenix flying in a straight line heavy hitting anything on its path and leaving behind a trail of fire that burns for ticking damage. It would share a lot with Meteor of course, but one would be the ST heavy hitter with a targeted area, the other the more AoE centric (since it was supposed to be Cinderstorm's niche) with a larger trail starting from your character's postion and heavier AoE damage (since i imagine it not split for every target hit, again exactly like Cinderstorm's isn't.)

[Obelisk Kai]

I think Phoenix's Flames (perhaps some modified/renewed version) will be the most obvious candidate, since we will lose the ability by unequipping the artifact. I personally would like to see a "line like" ability, maybe a bigger Phoenix flying in a straight line heavy hitting anything on its path and leaving behind a trail of fire that burns for ticking damage. It would share a lot with Meteor of course, but one would be the ST heavy hitter with a targeted area, the other the more AoE centric (since it was supposed to be Cinderstorm's niche) with a larger trail starting from your character's postion and heavier AoE damage (since i imagine it not split for every target hit, again exactly like Cinderstorm's isn't.)

I'm dearly hoping Phoenix's Flames becomes baseline. It looks cool, it fulfils the fantasy of the spec and our rotation is seriously impaired without it. Yes, it is linked to the artefact. Just have them say we learned to maintain the effect ourselves or something.

[Deleted]

Let's be blunt. Cinderstorm is a talent we are all waiting for Blizzard to iterate in the 8.0 beta server.

And by iterate I mean remove from the game and replace with something we might actually use.

For most specs blizzard probably needs to do more than change the bad things of the spec in previous expansion.
The specs ussually need to feel revitalised and fresh. Fire for me though is one i want changed the least of the 3.

[Obelisk Kai]

For most specs blizzard probably needs to do more than change the bad things of the spec in previous expansion.
The specs ussually need to feel revitalised and fresh. Fire for me though is one i want changed the least of the 3.

That is a much more fundamental discussion though. Debate it long enough and you might come to the conclusion I have, that three specs on one class that do the exact same thing was a mistake Blizzard can't rectify at this point so they keep muddling their way through.

But on topic, I find Cinderstorm almost offensive in it's conception, a spell that nobody seems to enjoy at all that takes up a talent space something else, something we think could be better, could occupy.

[Zenfoldor]

It's difficulty to use, and when something is difficult to use, it better be OP, but it's not. In fact, it's niche and not very powerful at all even in those circumstances.