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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    My initial reply wasn't to you. I don't particularly care what you would use - my point was *to the OP* that people putting together a PUG need some way to judge whether someone will help make your Pug successful or not and that achieve is a fine way to do it.

    My point *to you* is that past getting raid comp into a decent place, you didn't actually answer the question. You didn't give any criteria aside from comp and perhaps tier rolls but that doesn't actually tell you jack about whether someone is a good raider or not.

    The point of most PUGs is to kill shit and tier rolls don't help you tell whether a player will make that more likely or less.
    Obviously your reply was to the OP; I didn't even write anything before responding to you. And of course I answered your question to the OP. You asked what other criteria there were (of the OP). And instead of letting the OP answer, I gave you some. Not that it really matters because he can use ANY criteria he wants. He's the RL. By all means use the achieve when you start your groups. But the achieve isn't reliable, which is what his point was. I swear you're one of these people who either don't understand the OP or you have some compulsiveness to respond just to disagree, all while moving the goalpost. Lots of criteria, lots of reasons to reject people with the achieve. No one is saying the achieve is completely irrelevant. This isn't even controversial.
    Last edited by Liarparadox; 2017-07-17 at 10:38 PM.

  2. #42
    Scarab Lord Phookah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnantinos View Post
    I am beyond sick and tired of people linking me their achievement for KJ. To me, it is not a reliable way, nor source to actually invite people into an actual (semi decent) Pug in which I make usually. But, of course, a lot of people debate with me trying to say that it is reliable beyond a shadow of doubt. Or better yet they call me a furry since I am on Moon guard USA.

    What do you all think I do not want to give a continously drabble and bore anyone who reads this
    You're right, it's not.

    What do you suggest is a fairly reliable indicator of skill they could link?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnantinos View Post
    Or better yet they call me a furry since I am on Moon guard USA.

    lol, that's pretty creative.
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Nobody is stopping you to play Elemental casually during questing or raiding #1000 with your disabled mage friends.

  4. #44
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    Interact less with the general population and all your problems will disappear. You need to isolate yourself with some like-minded individuals and never rely on the attendance or skill of Joe EveryRaider again, because he has a thousand reasons why his carry-attained achievement is credit enough for him to be allowed to have the privilege of being carried in your run as well.

    Attained rightfully or not, there's no way to tell until you're in the thick of it or if he'd like to put on a show at the training dummy. And why would he agree to that when he cam simply spam 14 other groups with his achievement? No, an achievement isn't some sort of trophy or denotation of skill unless it's a world first or exceedingly difficult to attain. Getting carried through current content is neither of those.

    Whether you'd rather have someone who's never seen the instance or someone that has is very subjective, and it mostly comes down to the kind of player you're inviting, which is something you just don't get to familiarize yourself with in a PuG. Is there any singular delineation of competence or skill you can be assured is a true representation of a random player's ability? iLvl? Achieves? Clear counts? No, not really, because all can be gained by AFKing in a corner.

    So don't PuG. Problem solved.

  5. #45
    I led a guldan pug once. ONLY invited people that had aotc for guldan.

    I left after the first pull. Adds weren't dying, melee standing in front of guldan, no one wanted to deal with chains.

    I am aware of fake achievement thing thats going around though. Problem is i don't know how to differentiate them from the legitimate ones.
    Last edited by pkm; 2017-07-18 at 01:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  6. #46
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    I led a guldan pug once. ONLY invited people that had aotc for guldan.

    I left after the first pull. Adds weren't dying, melee standing in front of guldan, no one wanted to deal with chains.

    I am aware of fake achievement thing thats going around though. Problem is i don't know how to differentiate them from the legitimate ones.
    I hope you learned from your mistake. Interacting with the general population is a recipe for disaster if you want to make any progress.

  7. #47
    Pandaren Monk Kcin14's Avatar
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    I only invite people that have 1000+ ilvl and AoTC Argus The Unmaker

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcin14 View Post
    I only invite people that have 1000+ ilvl and AoTC Argus The Unmaker
    Time traveling noobs must plague your groups.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnantinos View Post
    I am beyond sick and tired of people linking me their achievement for KJ. To me, it is not a reliable way, nor source to actually invite people into an actual (semi decent) Pug in which I make usually. But, of course, a lot of people debate with me trying to say that it is reliable beyond a shadow of doubt. Or better yet they call me a furry since I am on Moon guard USA.

    What do you all think I do not want to give a continously drabble and bore anyone who reads this
    eveyrbody wants to be carried and dont want to feel any chalenge at all - its natural so thats how people behave - whether its AoTC or mythic score or 950 itlv for mythic 0 dungeons its how people behave

    they feel that just because they are good on their main they are entitled to be carried on alts. its been like this for years and clearly blizzard doesnt care at this point at all no matter how toxic it is for game

    wow is in cash cow stage - once it end blizz will pull out plug and be done - for now they will milk the f.... out of it and wont care about anything

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    OK, so how do you assess people then? I dislike the achievement/ item level thing too but aside from spending a lot of time looking at the armory, I can't think of a faster way to assess someone unknown to you.

    Here's a thought - use Open Raid and build a PUG where at least a core group wants to raid week in and week out. Wont work if you want to PUG when you feel like it but having a core of ~15 people lets some people decide not to raid sometimes. But if you want a random pug that assembles on demand... what else do you use to judge people?
    you dont - at the point that content is meant to wide audience it shouldnt need any form of evaluation

    its developement fail if devs allow such toxicity and exclusion in their game

    thats why things like hc raids or high level of mythic + should have never been put into group finder - yes they should be allowed to be cross realm so people could inv through real id by it should have never been fully opened to everybody - this is what created this crazy idiotic stuff.

  10. #50
    Immortal Saverem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnantinos View Post
    I am beyond sick and tired of people linking me their achievement for KJ. To me, it is not a reliable way, nor source to actually invite people into an actual (semi decent) Pug in which I make usually. But, of course, a lot of people debate with me trying to say that it is reliable beyond a shadow of doubt. Or better yet they call me a furry since I am on Moon guard USA.

    What do you all think I do not want to give a continously drabble and bore anyone who reads this
    It's not reliable, but I think it's the best way to judge someone you know nothing about. Assuming 2 Shamans sign up with the same ilvls, one has AoTC the other doesn't, are you telling me the AoTC wouldn't help sway you?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kcin14 View Post
    I only invite people that have 1000+ ilvl and AoTC Argus The Unmaker
    I only invite people who are at least 2 expansions ahead of the current raid so they can kill the boss for me real quick.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

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