So apparently the way to pug Maiden HC...

[SkagenRora]

Why do people still prefer to pug instead of finding a guild? You can find guilds which raid at the time you prefer and as many days per week as you prefer.

Pugging on average will waste you much more time, be less successful and less fun than a guild run.

There is no upside of pugging, I know people have other stuff to do and prefer to do the raid whenever they like, but it's such a small commitment with a much better experience.

If your program makes you work or do stuff at times of the raid, there are guilds which don't have mandatory showing up to raids and still succeed.

Guilds are far less Chill than just begin casual PuGGer. Guilds expect you to live up to their standards and do all side content outside of raids, You can't just Login, raid, Log out.

Also Guild drama, People not signing up for raids, The Guild often rather go progress mythic than just do a weekly Heroic & Normal for loot.
Which often leads to many lootless nights and if you try to ask them to run atleast heroic before going mythic on a new reset they say "Just PuG it, we don't have time to do that"

[Mamut]

so the only way to make things hard is to have 1 mistake wipe the whole raid?

nice game design

And why is this bad thing? You progress on boss, everyone learning mechanics and getting used to them. Then you push boss lower and lower and finally killing him.

But I know how pugs work, 1-2 wipe and then start something like "you foking noooob", "l2p idiot", "kick him, kick him", "no, RL is retarded you foking noob", "are you foking first time here???!!!". And tell me why HC raids should be balanced around pugs?

As I said before, LFR and normal are here for a reason. Dont expect to clear HC with randoms like normal, if you want have better raids join casual guild where you dont need to show up 100% of the time or get used to wiping.

Guilds are far less Chill than just begin casual PuGGer. Guilds expect you to live up to their standards and do all side content outside of raids, You can't just Login, raid, Log out.

Also Guild drama, People not signing up for raids, The Guild often rather go progress mythic than just do a weekly Heroic & Normal for loot.
Which often leads to many lootless nights and if you try to ask them to run atleast heroic before going mythic on a new reset they say "Just PuG it, we don't have time to do that"

If I want I can just login for raid and logout, especially when I have tons of work and dont have time for WoW. I dont even have to raid, all I have to do is just tell this to raid leader that probably I wont show up in this week. My guild even when doing mythic still organise alt/ap/legendary runs in HC/normal. So again, just find decent guild, theres plenty of them.

[Kluian05]

I play 3 alts and clear heroic ToS weeky (8/9 ... haven't bothered with KJ). In my experience Maiden is often a pain, and the group often works better when its smaller (14-15 people). I have yet to be in a successful maiden kill in a pug with 20+, since 1 person can screw over an attempt easily. I have not gone the super small route - 2/2/6 - but I could see this working better.

The DPS/Heal checks on this fight are not high, even on heroic. A smaller group also allows you to more easily see who is messing up, and replace them if needed.

[Tiwack]

So many talking past each other. The problem is the split difficulty across the same bossfight. Kick the bads and tell them to raid normal and learn the mechanics there. If you and your pals have no issues maybe go kick mythic for a bit and maybe you'll be able to rise to the challenge. Raiding heroic you can't expect not to be punished by a single player botching it for the rest on a single boss. If every boss was that way on heroic you'd have an argument.

[clevin]

People? You can

1) Find a guild with reasonable hours and attendance. N and H are flexible, so there's more and more of these if you're DPS since it generally doesn't matter if a DPS shows or not.

2) Decide that you want to PUG and accept the risks of playing with randoms of unknown skill.


You cannot choose 2 and whine that people aren't reliably good.

[Deleted]

Why do people still prefer to pug instead of finding a guild? You can find guilds which raid at the time you prefer and as many days per week as you prefer.

Pugging on average will waste you much more time, be less successful and less fun than a guild run.

There is no upside of pugging, I know people have other stuff to do and prefer to do the raid whenever they like, but it's such a small commitment with a much better experience.

If your program makes you work or do stuff at times of the raid, there are guilds which don't have mandatory showing up to raids and still succeed.

The idea of playing a game on a schedule is horrible, and being part of a guild that can see what you're doing all the time when you're ingame. The popularity of pugging shows how much of an anachronism the guild raid system is.

[Tharkkun]

personal responsibility = timmy the retard stands on fire. timmy the retard dies. everyone else with a functional brain do the mechanics and are fine.

shit that shouldn't appear until harder mythics = everyone for the most part does the mechanics fine. timmy the retard stands on fire. the fire explodes and kills everyone.


Yeah sorry no.

Then maybe go back to LFR or Normal raiding if you can't handle heroic content where individuals can wipe the raid?

- - - Updated - - -

did your mother take drugs and drink too much alochol while she was pregnant with you?

Good players don't like being punished by other people's errors.

Then join a guild with like minded players. This thread is about pugging content.

[Swalload]

I must say, I kinda hate how 1 person fucking up causes a domino effect and wipes the raid. That kind of crap needs to be kept to Mythic.

Absolutely not, the game needs to be hard, it needs to teach lazy players that they need to stop sucking to get somewhere.

[Deathquoi]

...is to do 2/2/6.

I've been in so, so many pugs over the past two weeks, trying and failing and trying and failing to kill Maiden on Heroic, so many wipes, so many groups, all failing to even get her below 50%

then I join a 10man group and we kill it on the 3rd try with a dps dead half the fight.



I must say, I kinda hate how 1 person fucking up causes a domino effect and wipes the raid. That kind of crap needs to be kept to Mythic.

Wow sorry that you can't kill the third to last boss on Heroic with a pug full of retards. Definitely a tuning issue for sure.

[gushDH]

The idea of playing a game on a schedule is horrible, and being part of a guild that can see what you're doing all the time when you're ingame. The popularity of pugging shows how much of an anachronism the guild raid system is.

You can see it like the guild can see what you are doing, but I am seeing it like a way to make life-long friends.

[Evaddon]

Yeah because not everyone can take alot of player accountability in this game, if you haven't noticed.

[SkagenRora]

You can see it like the guild can see what you are doing, but I am seeing it like a way to make life-long friends.

You're nothing to them tho, they'll leave the guild as soon as something better shows up.

[gushDH]

You're nothing to them tho, they'll leave the guild as soon as something better shows up.

That may be your experience. I have friends that I still talk with from TBC. We are no longer in the same guild, hell we don't even play together. But we still chit chat about stuff.

[furiousferret]

Can confirm, wiped 3 times with a full pug, after everyone left 10 of us cleaned it up easy.

Not in a guild atm, last two were complete cancer. Getting yelled at by teenagers just isn't a fun time and it was quite evident no one was going to get any gear until all the officers got theirs.

I'm going on vacation for a few weeks, so I'll probably join one when I get back. For now, I'm enjoying the lack of stress of not being in a progression guild.

[shats]

...is to do 2/2/6.

I've been in so, so many pugs over the past two weeks, trying and failing and trying and failing to kill Maiden on Heroic, so many wipes, so many groups, all failing to even get her below 50%

then I join a 10man group and we kill it on the 3rd try with a dps dead half the fight.



I must say, I kinda hate how 1 person fucking up causes a domino effect and wipes the raid. That kind of crap needs to be kept to Mythic.

So don't pug heroic? Pug normal - it is tuned for exactly what you're asking.

Heroic is designed to require more coordination than normal. Mythic is designed to require (near) perfect coordination as well as (near) perfect class play. There are 4 difficulties in this game now. Each one is designed for a certain level of ability. If you can't pug it in then you're trying to play a harder difficulty than the team ability allows.

Just give it a few weeks and once people get more gear you'll outgear it and it won't matter. Even at launch you can kill heroic maiden with half a 20 man raid after the second ball phase. I know this because my guild did it 2 weeks in a row.

[Jastall]

Even with no-one fucking up, due to the way the dmg was scaled on Maiden small groups have it much much easier than larger sizes. In small groups the whole stacking for hammer damage becomes moot as the tanks can easily solo soak the blow, while the dps can just ignore that mechanic and pewpew or deal with bombs 100%.

Tell me about it. We tried a 30 man group and each side just barely survived their respective hammers in Heroic, with many more chances of someone getting a bomb and blowing up. 2-3 dead people meant having to use cooldowns so that their entire side didn't get chunked into fel salsa next time. Next week, try with a 12 man group, tanks solo soak the hammers while the rest of us roll faces on keyboards and enjoy having as much space as we want.

[Deix-EU]

They way to raid heroic is not pug, but if you must, tell everyone to run along the track and stand still. You don't need the DPS bonus from the orbs to break the shields, and you will never wipe. At least to that mechanic.
I don't know why you would try to pug those last three bosses on heroic though. Unless they are using Voice, it sounds like a fucking nightmare.

Annnnnd this is not because of the bosses in itself. The game is freaky easy compared to brain required in some day to day jobs. But, the community is filled with morons and toxicity. Impossible to do last bosses without curve from the 2nd week into ToS or if you're a range for Avatar.
Enjoy you idiocy feast in pug ToS. WoW has never been like that before, nowadays, too much classes, too much difficulties, too much flex. Yet, people take what is "best" to consume the content like a fast food.

Maiden HC in pug is doable though, not so many groups with high requirement.

Even worse than IRL job finding: "Hey, you're applying for a junior role, congratz ! We require you to have 2 to 5 years of experience in the domain " blablabla.
WoW is just the glare of human's madness.

[pseudoJ]

Well.. the Tomb of Soaking likes punishing mechanics. Another issue is that the damage in this fight scales terribly. While the hammers are a piece of cake with 10 people (and honestly tanks could likely just take them into face). It hits kinda hard with 20+ people.

That said it's an easy fight once the group gets the hang of it.

[Simmias]

did your mother take drugs and drink too much alochol while she was pregnant with you?

Good players don't like being punished by other people's errors.

Find a competent guild then. Problem solved. Oh wait no good guilds will take you because you can't handle simple mechanics and cry on the forums instead learning to play.