Why can't casters cast while moving?

[Tradu]

Like it currently is, barely 1-2 ranged specs can keep up with dominating meeles with skills like blink-while-casting. But share more of your game dev insights.

Yeah, and Legion is the first expansion in over a decade where that has been the case, so it'd be great if ranged could stop whining about melee being worth bringing past the "required number" for each encounter. Gul'dan is the only fight since like... Paragon's Nefarian kill where melee were preferred to the point of barely bringing any ranged.

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I'll take "Interrupts" for $500, Alex.

Also, at the moment, melee and ranged do the same DPS for the most part, so....yeah.



What Legion are you playing where Spriest is "the most mobile caster" ?

You can't channel Mind Flay or cast Mind Blast while moving, so having to move to do a mechanic or something causes you to drop voidform, which is a massive blow to your DPS.

If only ranged, tanks and healers had interrupts. And what if some of those had the same CD(or shorter in the case of shaman) as melee interrupts.

[Segus1992]

Considering that's extremely easy to do, I'd say that casters not being able to move and cast is just a relic of the past.

When casters could move and cast at the same time, melee became useless. What he said was correct, and Blizzard just tried to enforce it a bit with Legion, to give melee a place in PvE.

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There were better ways to balance casters than just making them all into turrets like in WoD though.

Not a single caster is a true turret in any sense of the word. The way it is now is totally fine.

[Aggrophobic]

When casters could move and cast at the same time, melee became useless. What he said was correct, and Blizzard just tried to enforce it a bit with Legion, to give melee a place in PvE.

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Not a single caster is a true turret in any sense of the word. The way it is now is totally fine.

It's better now than it was in WoD but they still got it better in MoP.
Class design in general was pretty spot on back then. For the classes I played at least.

[Kralljin]

Melee vs. Ranged Balance is currently not completely out of whack, but some classes are serious outliners.

I mean raiding without rogues is currently just not possible, 5 Rogue on KJ first kill, we're reaching SWP levels of Class Imbalance.

That's insane if you think about it, this game has 12(!) classes, yet 1/4 of a raid is made up by one freaking class.

Whatever the exact reason for these Rogues are, both the encounter and class balance team needs to take a serious look at class / spec representation right now.

[Nyel]

What Legion are you playing where Spriest is "the most mobile caster" ?

You can't channel Mind Flay or cast Mind Blast while moving, so having to move to do a mechanic or something causes you to drop voidform, which is a massive blow to your DPS.

I'm playing that Legion were Shadow Priest is one of my main characters... most of your damage comes from DoTs or instant casts like Void Bolt. Having to cast Mind Flay or Mind Blast doesn't make you less mobile. Shadow Priest is doing fine during movement phases, as I said, play Elemental Shaman, Demonology or Destruction Warlock - those classes are horrible during movement.

[Tradu]

Melee vs. Ranged Balance is currently not completely out of whack, but some classes are serious outliners.

I mean raiding without rogues is currently just not possible, 5 Rogue on KJ first kill, we're reaching SWP levels of Class Imbalance.

That's insane if you think about it, this game has 12(!) classes, yet 1/4 of a raid is made up by one freaking class.

Whatever the exact reason for these Rogues are, both the encounter and class balance team needs to take a serious look at class / spec representation right now.

It's basically a case of Blizzard designing way too many mechanics that either require or heavily encourage the use of immunities, rather than implementing some kind of anti-immunity safeguards(like requiring X players to soak, rather than any number)

[Dugna]

I'm playing that Legion were Shadow Priest is one of my main characters... most of your damage comes from DoTs or instant casts like Void Bolt. Having to cast Mind Flay or Mind Blast doesn't make you less mobile. Shadow Priest is doing fine during movement phases, as I said, play Elemental Shaman, Demonology or Destruction Warlock - those classes are horrible during movement.

ele shammy, demo, and desc don't suffer in the same way as moving as a spriest. Those dots you mention don't tick hard unless you have high voidform stacks and those high voidform stacks are only maintained by the rooted casts aka flay and blast, so overall you can be moving around more on a shammy with wolf form, wind totem, and gust and lose not that much dps in comparison to shadow. Warlocks also have more choices to move around and faster then spriest does with the pitiful body and soul, warlock circle, portals etc etc...overall if you mess up a slight moment on spriest it hurts more then desc or demo.

http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc...shadow/AjUTIvA look at the gold traits.

On the topic of this thread though, many people have said that when casters could cast on the move it lead to raids litterally not bringing melee outside of the min needed for a mech because if you can move 30-40 yrds around the boss at a whim then there isn't much downside to that, hence why since the dawn of this game till the anomaly that is legion most raids have stacked ranged.

[Darknessvamp]

Blizzard detected fun occurring during raids back in MoP and decided it needed to be nerfed hard in WoD.

[Kralljin]

It's basically a case of Blizzard designing way too many mechanics that either require or heavily encourage the use of immunities, rather than implementing some kind of anti-immunity safeguards(like requiring X players to soak, rather than any number)

Yeah i agree.

Problem is just currently that Blizzard in theory tries to design encounter that you could potentially beat the encounter without an abundance of immunities but still doesn't install any mechanics that those mechanics aren't trivialised by having immunities.

Mythic Avatar is a great example, 2 people can barely survive soaking touch of Sargeras, or you just stack Hunters / Sp / Mages for being able to soak everything with immunities.


Blizzard needs to realize that immunities have simply become an essential tool in raiding, those classes needs to have an offset weakness for this or mechanics need to have something to prevent this.

[coprax]

It's a tradeoff for being able to stand wherever you want within a 30-40 yard radius of whatever you're attacking, as opposed to a melee who has to stick close to the target at all times.

Ever played a (bm) hunter? Where's your tradeoff there?
Easiest spec I've ever played, and miles ahead in terms of convenience to any other class.

[Jastall]

Melee vs. Ranged Balance is currently not completely out of whack, but some classes are serious outliners.

I mean raiding without rogues is currently just not possible, 5 Rogue on KJ first kill, we're reaching SWP levels of Class Imbalance.

That's insane if you think about it, this game has 12(!) classes, yet 1/4 of a raid is made up by one freaking class.

Whatever the exact reason for these Rogues are, both the encounter and class balance team needs to take a serious look at class / spec representation right now.

The very top of raiding is hardly indicative of what most of the playerbase plays. Drop out of the top 10 guilds on Wowprogress and class representation becomes far more varied. The tier does favor immunities/soakers, just like Nighthold favored melee and BRF was a total ranged fest. These are just things that inevitably happen.

I do agree that immunities are becoming just too much of a versatile tool in raiding. Tomb just showcased it even more than usual due to the insane amount of soaking that is required. Thinking about it, on Mythic immunities allow you to cheese mechanics on Goroth, Sisters, Mistress, Host, Avatar and KJ. That's 2/3rds of the raid!

As for casters moving, honestly I think the MoP model where most specs could cast basic spells (Incinerate, Lightning Bolt, etc.) on the move was fine. But more than that would just hurt melee too much comparatively.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Ever played a (bm) hunter? Where's your tradeoff there?
Easiest spec I've ever played, and miles ahead in terms of convenience to any other class.

Because BM is designed for newer players. There's no other excuse for how simple it is.

[Deleted]

Because if casters could cast while moving, there would be absolutely no reason to bring melees.

Hunters

/10c

[anon5123]

I'm playing that Legion were Shadow Priest is one of my main characters... most of your damage comes from DoTs or instant casts like Void Bolt. Having to cast Mind Flay or Mind Blast doesn't make you less mobile. Shadow Priest is doing fine during movement phases, as I said, play Elemental Shaman, Demonology or Destruction Warlock - those classes are horrible during movement.

Did you even read what I posted?

If you have to move, you cannot cast 2 of your 3 insanity generators

which leads to dropping voidform early

which leads to massively reduced DPS.

The fact that you think "ohh, dot class, so movement is okay" shows that you know very little about how the spec actually functions.

many people have said that when casters could cast on the move it lead to raids litterally not bringing melee outside of the min needed for a mech because if you can move 30-40 yrds around the boss at a whim then there isn't much downside to that, hence why since the dawn of this game till the anomaly that is legion most raids have stacked ranged.

Casters don't have short-CD interrupts.

Besides, Blizz has been pushing "bring the player not the class" for multiple expacs now. This whole idea of "if X is good then nobody will use Y" is not true for 90% of the playerbase.

[Halyon]

It would make them way too strong.

[purebalance]

It's a tradeoff for being able to stand wherever you want within a 30-40 yard radius of whatever you're attacking, as opposed to a melee who has to stick close to the target at all times.

Then take away the 50 million gap closers melee have if this is the trade off.

[Deleted]

Hunters do ranged damage and can move while attacking yet everyone pretends they are different from casters. Really... How? Don't they make melee pointless?
Casting when standing still is an archaic idea that should be wiped.

[Nyel]

ele shammy, demo, and desc don't suffer in the same way as moving as a spriest. Those dots you mention don't tick hard unless you have high voidform stacks and those high voidform stacks are only maintained by the rooted casts aka flay and blast, so overall you can be moving around more on a shammy with wolf form, wind totem, and gust and lose not that much dps in comparison to shadow. Warlocks also have more choices to move around and faster then spriest does with the pitiful body and soul, warlock circle, portals etc etc...overall if you mess up a slight moment on spriest it hurts more then desc or demo.

http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc...shadow/AjUTIvA look at the gold traits.

On the topic of this thread though, many people have said that when casters could cast on the move it lead to raids litterally not bringing melee outside of the min needed for a mech because if you can move 30-40 yrds around the boss at a whim then there isn't much downside to that, hence why since the dawn of this game till the anomaly that is legion most raids have stacked ranged.

Do you play Elemental Shaman? I do. I have every caster at level 110 with decent raid gear and there is a huge difference between Shadow Priest damage and Elemental Shaman damage while moving.

As a Shaman your only damage while moving is a) Flame Shock (a DoT that deals 1/3 damage of a Shadow Word: Pain) or b) Lava Surge procs. That's it. If you don't have any procs your DPS are non existing as an Ele. Destruction Warlocks have Immolate DoT ticks, Conflagrate + Rifts (which have a 45 second CD) as their only damage ressource during movement. ~ 60% of Ele Shaman and Destruction Warlock damage comes from casts whereas ~ 60% of SP damage comes from DoTs or Void Bolt. That's a massive difference. By the way, Destruction Warlocks don't have any movement at all, they're the only class that need a talent to get some movement speed (Demonic Circle is a talent as well).

[Wow]

Why can't melee do full dmg from 40 yards same reason...

[Nyel]

Did you even read what I posted?

If you have to move, you cannot cast 2 of your 3 insanity generators

which leads to dropping voidform early

which leads to massively reduced DPS.

The fact that you think "ohh, dot class, so movement is okay" shows that you know very little about how the spec actually functions.

You can easily fit Mind Blasts into movement phases. Void Bolt alone is a good tool to keep Void Form stacks high. I know exactly how Shadow Priest works and I find this high class whine amusing.