Why can't casters cast while moving?

[Kralljin]

Shamans have plenty of movement options, plan better and stop being bad.

Sure they do.

But compare these tools to other classes, add in the the fact that Elemental usually does inferior ST, a niche that can rarely be taken advantage off, and you'll have a mage without any advantages compared to a mage.

Movement, especially prolonged & unpredicatable movement gives Elemental a hard time.

There are some damning disadvantages of Elemental, which are the reasons this spec is rather rare in the higher echolons of mythic raiding.

[TheEaterofSouls]

Ranged used to have one spell castable on moving. Now they have none. Playing a caster in pvp is just horrible.

BM Hunters can cast everything while moving from ranged, Fire and Frost mages can cast most things while moving except their bolts, Elemental shamans have shocks, Balance druids have their dot's, Lunar procs, and SS, Spriests have VB and Dots, Aff locks have dots, and Demo has instant cast demons.


But no, the melee arguement doesn't work because hunters are both ranged and completely mobile. Tho it's not really an issue. Atleast anymore. Also I quite enjoy not being able to cast everything while moving. Never had a problem.

[Jazzhands]

Please, do link me your shaman, I would like to see your build. Or are you going to keep talking about my grammar mistake?

Talents should be changed depending on fight, the current build of my shaman would prove nothing. But here you go, my super outdated shaman I haven't played since before like 7.1: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...ralyon/mithara

And just to nip the "No raid experience" in the bud, here's my mage alt that I raid on https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...ralyon/maevira. It's not difficult to apply a shamans toolkit to the fights I've done as a different ranged class.

Also, I forgot that the elemental artifact ability allows casting a few spells instantly. One more way to deal with movement!

And just to add more fun, melee don't get 100% up time on bosses, so why should casters? Melee have to leave the boss for mechanics, which means near 0 DPS for a lot of classes. Casters need to move for mechanics, which can generally be offset by numerous methods, as I've already demonstrated with shaman.

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Sure they do.

But compare these tools to other classes, add in the the fact that Elemental usually does inferior ST, a niche that can rarely be taken advantage off, and you'll have a mage without any advantages compared to a mage.

Movement, especially prolonged & unpredicatable movement gives Elemental a hard time.

There are some damning disadvantages of Elemental, which are the reasons this spec is rather rare in the higher echolons of mythic raiding.

You are absolutely correct, I never said shamans were super mobile or anything, but Packers seems to imply they're complete shit and have almost no options, which is false. The issue with Ele seems more just a matter of pure numbers and not really the mechanics of the spec.

[Kagthul]

I don't care about PVP...

And i dont tive one solitary single tiny fuck about Dragonslaying, so... whats your point?

[Kralljin]

The issue with Ele seems more just a matter of pure numbers and not really the mechanics of the spec.

Yes and no.

To a certain degree this is true, but this spec desperately lacks a niche similiar to it's hybrid cousins Shadow & Balance to keep it attractive, even if Elemental was on par with other casters in terms of raw numbers, it would still be a "bad mage" due inferior movement abilities & Utility.

Disadvantages can be compensated somewhere else, but that simply doesn't happen for Elemental, even it's AoE Damage is in ToS rather average, partly because Blizzard nerfed Earthquake into oblivion.

You could give Elemental back some casting while moving abilities, historically Shaman was the first Caster to receive casting while moving anyway, so you wouldn't just conjure something out of nowhere.

[Jazzhands]

Yes and no.

To a certain degree this is true, but this spec desperately lacks a niche similiar to it's hybrid cousins Shadow & Balance to keep it attractive, even if Elemental was on par with other casters in terms of raw numbers, it would still be a "bad mage" due inferior movement abilities & Utility.

Disadvantages can be compensated somewhere else, but that simply doesn't happen for Elemental, even it's AoE Damage is in ToS rather average, partly because Blizzard nerfed Earthquake into oblivion.

You could give Elemental back some casting while moving abilities, historically Shaman was the first Caster to receive casting while moving anyway, so you wouldn't just conjure something out of nowhere.

While I don't play the spec so I can't go super in depth, a lot of people in this thread have been arguing about Shadow priests and their poor mobility, and from what I've read they have much fewer options than shamans, yet they still do incredibly well. There aren't many fights in ToS that are super punishing on range, except for some high end bleeding edge Mythic stuff, and you choose that life.

I feel like a hard boost in numbers to compensate for their downtime would be fine in terms of making them viable, but viable doesn't necessarily mean fun, and we all know how much Blizzard loves non-Resto shamans.

Also, simply because i'm curious, when did LB become castable while moving? I never played a shaman until the very end of MoP, the first instance of movable casting I remember was Fire mage in Cata, and I loved it because until then casting while moving was just something that didn't happen lol.

[Deleted]

and Demo has instant cast demons.

wait what ? What are you talking about ? The 90sec CD spell ? Which is no more mandatory for destro, and has never been for afflock ?
The only thing we have instant as demonology is the doom. You can cast while moving demonwrath, but besides the low chance of generating soulshards that's quite useless.

So basically, while you move as warlock destro / demonology, you just spam most of the time Life tap cuz you know, mana management is still a thing for us. So yeah we can deal with movements planned if they are not so frequent, but fights like KJ are a fucking pain in the ass for us.

I can't still figure why Method did bring a destruction on KJ mythic. Probably to deal with cleaving issues ?

[Kazgrel]

*Sees thread about casting while moving*

*Sees posts stating "ele shaman is fine, l2p"*

LOL

[Jazzhands]

*Sees thread about casting while moving*

*Sees posts stating "ele shaman is fine, l2p"*

LOL

I never said they were fine, just that they had options to use while moving. Their damage is not great, which I've already expressed in previous posts.

[Deleted]

Melee can do their 100% dps while moving and sticking to the target is childplay. I don't see a reason why can't we at least deal half of our dmg on the move.

[Jazzhands]

Melee can do their 100% dps while moving and sticking to the target is childplay. I don't see a reason why can't we at least deal half of our dmg on the move.

Melee have mechanics that force them away from the boss, where they deal almost no DPS, most casters can at least do something while moving. Melee don't have 100% up time on bosses, why should ranged?

[Trend]

*Sees thread about casting while moving*

*Sees posts stating "ele shaman is fine, l2p"*

LOL

There are 2 different things people could be saying:
1. There are no challenges that movement poses for ele shamans
2. Ele shamans are not more significantly affected (in terms of damage output ability) than other casters

You seem to be taking it as #1 because that idea would be stupid and you would automatically win the argument. But I don't think anyone is saying #1, I think they're saying #2.

When I pull up the logs for ToS, for both heroic and mythic at an 80% parse I see ele shaman almost dead middle, with both ranged and melee specs both above and below. It drops if you're looking at a mythic 50% parse but it's still not bottom or anything. I think there are problems with the spec (like the mastery cap), but I do not agree that somehow ele shaman are punished by movement in some unique way and that we should LOL at anyone who thinks the class is actually viable as it is.

[Kharli]

Then take away the 50 million gap closers melee have if this is the trade off.

what 50 million gap closers? Ret Paladin has a pony for 6 seconds, 12 if you spec into it.. rogues has Sprint and shadowstep, ska got wraith i got stuck again, shamans got spirit wolf,

[Elilol89]

Simple solution: casting while moving reduces the effectiveness of said spell by 1% for every second moving. Maximum reduction of 20%.

I second this and say its either that or casting while moving reduces spell haste % by X amount.

[omeomorfismo]

Melee can do their 100% dps while moving and sticking to the target is childplay. I don't see a reason why can't we at least deal half of our dmg on the move.

because is childplay to press tab when you switch target :\

[WskyDK]

honestly, if blizzard made it possible to cast on the move, but the spells cost 50% (placeholder value) more mana, I think it would be a decent trade off. That way casters can have some mobility when needed, but they aren't bouncing around like pinballs.

[Jester Joe]

what 50 million gap closers? Ret Paladin has a pony for 6 seconds, 12 if you spec into it.. rogues has Sprint and shadowstep, ska got wraith i got stuck again, shamans got spirit wolf,

It's 3 seconds, with 6 if you're specced into the talent for 2 charges, which also uses the GCD.

[Kralljin]

yet they still do incredibly well.

Compared to what?

Without driving this argument further, Ele & SP aren't that great on high movement fights, arguing who's worse is pointless, they both suck compared to Mage / Hunter and to a certain degree Balance Druids.

Also, simply because i'm curious, when did LB become castable while moving? I never played a shaman until the very end of MoP, the first instance of movable casting I remember was Fire mage in Cata, and I loved it because until then casting while moving was just something that didn't happen lol.

Spiritwalker's grace was introduced with Cata (Patch 4.0), LB on the move was originally a Glyph introduced with Patch 4.2 (Firelands).

Blizzard even highlighted Elemental in particular when they announced to cut back on the cast while moving stuff, because people were seeing this as a core part of the spec.

[Temp name]

Melee can do their 100% dps while moving and sticking to the target is childplay. I don't see a reason why can't we at least deal half of our dmg on the move.

I don't see why I can't do half my dps as a melee while not in melee range.

[Jazzhands]

Compared to what?

Without driving this argument further, Ele & SP aren't that great on high movement fights, arguing who's worse is pointless, they both suck compared to Mage / Hunter and to a certain degree Balance Druids.



Spiritwalker's grace was introduced with Cata (Patch 4.0), LB on the move was originally a Glyph introduced with Patch 4.2 (Firelands).

Blizzard even highlighted Elemental in particular when they announced to cut back on the cast while moving stuff, because people were seeing this as a core part of the spec.

Shadow priests were used on every world first ToS mythic kill, sometimes two. Even with their bad mobility, they compete on the highest level of content in the game, which leads me to believe mobility isn't a huge issue if you plan properly. This only applies to raids however, i've heard Ele is pretty decent in M+ but i wouldn't really know.