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  1. #121
    My guilt never did Mythic Trial of Valor, we went there half way through M NH progress because we lacked some main raiders for the night and 1 shot Guarm and killed Helya in a dozen attempts.
    Yes the power scaling trivializes fights half a tier down.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #122
    I don't really understand why everyone thinks ilvl inflation is such a big problem; people like getting upgrades, and the system proposed by OP would've made stepping from normal to mythic raiding even less rewarding (in terms of ilvl) than it already is.

    Power creep is not really a problem when content is being continuously deprecated, or there are procedural increases in difficulty (i.e. m+). The model where people were expected to run old raids long after the next tier released has been dead since BC. People seem to continuously claim that power creep is a bad thing, and it's never really been clear why that was.

    ed: I mean, if the claim is that you want the BC model back... well. I'll just say that I was relatively well-progressed in BC, and that model sucked.
    Last edited by Cheze; 2017-07-20 at 10:23 PM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheze View Post
    I don't really understand why everyone thinks ilvl inflation is such a big problem; people like getting upgrades, and the system proposed by OP would've made stepping from normal to mythic raiding even less rewarding (in terms of ilvl) than it already is.

    Power creep is not really a problem when content is being continuously deprecated, or there are procedural increases in difficulty (i.e. m+). The model where people were expected to run old raids long after the next tier released has been dead since BC. People seem to continuously claim that power creep is a bad thing, and it's never really been clear why that was.

    ed: I mean, if the claim is that you want the BC model back... well. I'll just say that I was relatively well-progressed in BC, and that model sucked.
    There are plenty of examples out there and even in this very thread. You just have to want to read and retain the information.

  4. #124
    That makes absolutely no sense unless you want no one doing some of those raid difficulties. I agree its out of control, but Titanforging and even warforging is a main feature of the expansion and one of the main reasons Mythic+ works.
    If mythic was only 5 item levels higher than heroic its just a waste of time to do it at all. You get 2-3 more pieces from heroic than you do from Mythic. You didn't think that through.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    I do. I think the massive power inflation causes two problems:

    1. Content is nerfed into irrelevance way too fast.
    2. It limits their options for encounter design - they end up building too many one shot mechanics.

    To me the second item is the important one. Most mythic raiders this expansion have complained about how the raids are designed with super unforgiving mechanics that wipe you if you make a wrong move. I believe they do this because they need to make a fight that's hard but doable for an undergeared method team 2 weeks in, but is still hard for random guild number 6 four months later, which shows up with an extra 8-10 item levels and artifact traits. A one shot mechanic is hard regardless of how much gear you have, so it works in both circumstances. A tight dps or hps check does not.
    1. Just isn't true. Titanforging is the reason for these things, not a steep increase in item level. They are never irrelevant either thanks to titanforging. Ask the top guilds running Nighthold every week for old set bonus upgrades.
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  5. #125
    You need to scale because the mythic+ content scales and you must scale with it.

    The addition of 1 shot mechanics isn't a thing. I haven't seen it any more than normal this xpak.

    The "relevance" of old content was made moot by flying, no? On top of that, they did scale up the mobs. Would not a better solution be to scale them up at a higher rate?

    Power gain is as good as it has ever been, and that's a good thing. We should start to feel much more powerful with each piece of loot, because that makes getting loot rewarding, which in the end is by far the most important aspect of the game.

    Stop pushing the game in the wrong direction because your main is a scrub, and someone with decent gear blew you out of the water in LFR this week.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by GutsAP View Post
    Who gives a shit if people do more damage and have a high ilevel?
    Because huge numbers are ridiculous.

    We've got non-tanks with over 5 million health now...next expac we're going to be rocking 20mil+ health unless they do another stat squish

    20 million health, doing 50 million dps, against bosses with 100 billion health...it's just ridiculous.
    Guide for setting up VuhDo to track shields/absorbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
    get_a_load_of_this_guy_cam.jpg

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by NoobistTV-Metro View Post
    1. Just isn't true. Titanforging is the reason for these things, not a steep increase in item level. They are never irrelevant either thanks to titanforging. Ask the top guilds running Nighthold every week for old set bonus upgrades.
    Irrelevant is the wrong word, what I mean is that the content becomes boring and easy way too quickly because we outgear it by so much. Content that gives meaningful rewards but is super easy (which is kind of a trademark of Legion) is the worst of all worlds.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Because huge numbers are ridiculous.

    We've got non-tanks with over 5 million health now...next expac we're going to be rocking 20mil+ health unless they do another stat squish

    20 million health, doing 50 million dps, against bosses with 100 billion health...it's just ridiculous.
    You underestimate health pools. People had 400k on Archimonde. Without a stat squish, at this rate we'll be at around 250 mill health by end of next xp.

    We'll be at 10-12 mill by end of legion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    WoD was like ordering a meal, eating it and leaving. Legion is like ordering a meal, instantly puking it back in the platter due to atrocious taste and watching everyone around doing the same, eating their own puke again and again while telling each other 'Wow, there's so much to eat, I can't believe it'.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    There are plenty of examples out there and even in this very thread. You just have to want to read and retain the information.
    I disagree that very much compelling reasoning has been offered

    gear inflation doesn't limit encounter design, since encounters are tuned around expected ilvl. If everyone were 880 ilvl instead of 925 there wouldn't be fewer one shots or whatever, mechanics would just do less damage in absolute terms.

    content doesn't become irrelevant 'too fast.' Do people really still want farming EN/ToV/etc to be a reasonable source of useful gear? Those raids were current for months, there's no reason to incentivize people to continue farming them forever (any more than blizzard already have)

  9. #129
    This feels like a non-issue. Numbers go up, what's the problem? As long as content is scaled correctly to the player's power the actual number is rather meaningless, but players like to see bigger ones than before. In the past this wasn't an issue of content design but because the servers and game engine were struggling. This doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

  10. #130
    so basically over a year ..mythic raiders would have gained 30 itemlevels over 4 (arguably 3.5) tiers ..haha, this post is ridiculous ..join a mythic guild if you are salty about not having good gear: if your are unable to: do alot of m+'s and hope for TF's ..if your are unable to do even that, go to mmo champ and suggest a ridiculous itemlvl scaling over raidcontent

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Umbrex View Post
    so basically over a year ..mythic raiders would have gained 30 itemlevels over 4 (arguably 3.5) tiers ..haha, this post is ridiculous ..join a mythic guild if you are salty about not having good gear: if your are unable to: do alot of m+'s and hope for TF's ..if your are unable to do even that, go to mmo champ and suggest a ridiculous itemlvl scaling over raidcontent
    Simply what i wanted to write::

    I mean Tbc. 1st tier 115 ilvl last tier 164 ilvl
    Look Wotlk . Naxx 200 ilvl to icc 277 ilvl...
    Cata ? 359 ilvl to 414 ilvl if i recall right.
    Mist of pandaria...489 ilvl to 574 + the upgrade system to 588 i think...
    Draenor i didn^t played.

    In terms you want something like vanilla but even worse..
    Classic wow has low ilvl but you forget the power of item...People With 1st tier was doing 700 dps ... Al Quiraz and Nax people where doing near 1.8 k dps.. even 2 k some people watching video.

    So insane power like you write is dismished by raid bosses with a lot of mechanics and a lot of health..

    Btw how many guild have killed Mythic Kj since we are 1 months into this tier ??? quess what 2... So your insane power shows actually it doesn^t exist at all....

  12. #132
    Elemental Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    where do crafting items fit into this equation?
    Oi! Hey you! Will you check out my latest podcast episode that discusses Columbus Day!

  13. #133
    Brewmaster Deztru's Avatar
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    Titanforging ruins everything

    The tiers have to inflate the numbers

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