Disc for the next exp.

[Supliftz]

Here is the thing. The proposed changes to LW don't reduce options. For Raids (if balanced correctly) nothing would change. You buff everyone with atonement, you cast LW, you heal a ton. But in dungeons the spell would now actually be an option since it wouldn't be crippled that much because of the missing atonement buffs. Currently if you would remove LW from the spell book in dungeons, nobody would notice and/or care that much, since it almost has no impact. That should never be the case. Light's Wrath is the ability that we get, because we use THE discipline artifact. An artifact so volatile and powerful that most people can't even touch the thing. Such an ability should never have the impact of a wet fart. Because the second you cast it with only 5 atonement's active, that is what it feels like.

I get that payout feels great if you execute properly and are in a raid group. But thanks to that scaling, the spells sucks in any content other than raids and big battlegrounds. And it sucks if you are not one of the few top players, that can execute the perfect Light's Wrath.

I really don't understand why it's a bad thing for spells to be powerful in different scenarios. Why is Light's Wrath (the spell) so special that it must always be good?

Flattening the power curve on the ability makes it less interesting and further highlights the fact that it's a slightly bigger, more annoying to use, longer cd version of penance.

This logic doesn't even make sense when you compare Light's Wrath to other artifact spells. Shouldn't Sheilun's Gift, Light of the Na'ruu, Tyrs Deliverance, etc all be equally powerful in all scenarios "because it's the artifact spell"?

[Geschan]

In general I would agree, but even with the 10% scaling in the end it's already "a slightly bigger, more annoying to use, longer cd version of penance".
A flatter power curve wouldn't really change that. You would still load up as many people as possible with atonement before using it. It only would make the spell more usable in 5 man content. With or without the scaling. Usage wouldn't really change. I simply don't get why the 10% modifier makes it more "interesting" to use.

I mean, what do I know... if the dev's at blizzard have a more elegant solution that makes the spell more important in 5 man content, I'm all for it.

In the end the things I wish blizzard would change going forward is that discipline performance is more stable across all group sizes and gear levels.

[Deleted]

Never played a healer the last 13 years ive been online.

But god how I love the way Disc works... I actually love it, but my DPS mindset wont admit it(maybe because the DPS aspect makes it good for me).

[Memento1]

There doesn't have to be a "winner" here. Neither side has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their view is right and the other is wrong. We're expressing opinions. I would like it if Light's Wrath felt powerful in a dungeon - you don't mind it being a filler in dungeons as long as it's powerful in raids. Neither opinion is wrong. Same with the whole "I would like if Disc had a baseline AoE spell." Hell, even the "I preferred WoD Disc" people. Once it crosses into "Blizzard must do it this way because I prefer it", that's a different argument, but I see no problem in expressing an opinion without saying Blizzard should cater to our opinion.

The reduced CD on LW versus DH is a perfectly valid point in terms of balancing - I was more saying Blizzard has changed how spells work in dungeons specifically. I am not arguing LW in a dungeon should be just as powerful as LW in a raid - that would be OP and unbalanced. But I don't see why it can't be just a little more powerful in dungeons - not because Disc needs the extra oomf to balance it, but because it feels awesome. It would require some tweaking to rebalance the output, and I'm open to that. And this can be something we just agree to disagree on. It doesn't have to be right versus wrong.

[MendUS]

not because Disc needs the extra oomf to balance it, but because it feels awesome.

This is not the reason they make changes like that. :- /

[Nurasu]

There doesn't have to be a "winner" here. Neither side has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their view is right and the other is wrong. We're expressing opinions. I would like it if Light's Wrath felt powerful in a dungeon - you don't mind it being a filler in dungeons as long as it's powerful in raids. Neither opinion is wrong. Same with the whole "I would like if Disc had a baseline AoE spell." Hell, even the "I preferred WoD Disc" people. Once it crosses into "Blizzard must do it this way because I prefer it", that's a different argument, but I see no problem in expressing an opinion without saying Blizzard should cater to our opinion.

The reduced CD on LW versus DH is a perfectly valid point in terms of balancing - I was more saying Blizzard has changed how spells work in dungeons specifically. I am not arguing LW in a dungeon should be just as powerful as LW in a raid - that would be OP and unbalanced. But I don't see why it can't be just a little more powerful in dungeons - not because Disc needs the extra oomf to balance it, but because it feels awesome. It would require some tweaking to rebalance the output, and I'm open to that. And this can be something we just agree to disagree on. It doesn't have to be right versus wrong.

I agree except for the bold part. Those people are wrong, and they should be told they're wrong at every opportunity >.>

[Memento1]

This is not the reason they make changes like that. :- /

Not mid-expansion, no, but absolutely when they do expansion overhauls. When they mess with spec designs in beta, they start by asking how the playstyle feels, completely unconnected to what the numbers are. Then they try to balance numbers around that.

[Supliftz]

In general I would agree, but even with the 10% scaling in the end it's already "a slightly bigger, more annoying to use, longer cd version of penance".

I feel like you don't understand why this is. Penance is so powerful because it has been massively power creeped over the entire expansion. Think back to Emerald Nightmare disc priest and compare Light's Wrath to Penance, there's no contest between the two spells.

once you start adding 7/7 traits, legendaries, and set bonus on to penance, it's no where light's wrath feels awful now. The big upside of the spell is comparable to a spell with a 9 second cooldown.

A flatter power curve wouldn't really change that. You would still load up as many people as possible with atonement before using it. It only would make the spell more usable in 5 man content. With or without the scaling. Usage wouldn't really change. I simply don't get why the 10% modifier makes it more "interesting" to use.

Have you ever considered that maybe blizzard doesn't think it's a problem for light's wrath to be worse in a 5 man? "raid" cooldowns have historically been bad in 5 man content, and this is true today.

[sbaybevett]

We will almost certainly will never see the days of disc bubble priests coming back and the current model it is true a Disc must work harder to yield the same results as other healing classes. With that said, about the only change I would offer to improve the current model is to bring back Prayer of Mending for Disc again and have it apply atonement ( full duration ) to it's targets as it jumps. Similar to the way it had applied DA when it crit healed in the past or as Mistweaver's of days past used to use jumping RM for future Uplift heals. I would even go so far is to have it heal for a % less each jump similar to what Shammy Chain Heal does since it would be applying atonement as to not upset class balance.

[Mazzeric]

We will almost certainly will never see the days of disc bubble priests coming back and the current model it is true a Disc must work harder to yield the same results as other healing classes.

Except at its full potential, Disc is surpassing other healing specs in output. It actually has a rather excellent effort to output ratio right now.

With that said, about the only change I would offer to improve the current model is to bring back Prayer of Mending for Disc again and have it apply atonement ( full duration ) to it's targets as it jumps. Similar to the way it had applied DA when it crit healed in the past or as Mistweaver's of days past used to use jumping RM for future Uplift heals. I would even go so far is to have it heal for a % less each jump similar to what Shammy Chain Heal does since it would be applying atonement as to not upset class balance.

You realize how disgustingly broken this would be in Disc's current state, yeah?

[sbaybevett]

Except at its full potential, Disc is surpassing other healing specs in output. It actually has a rather excellent effort to output ratio right now.



You realize how disgustingly broken this would be in Disc's current state, yeah?

Oh, agreed to a point, a Disc is casting twice as many casts compared to the other healing classes, so...

and I respectfully disagree it would be "disgustingly broken".. Disc had POM before, it can have it again...

[Mazzeric]

and I respectfully disagree it would be "disgustingly broken".. Disc had POM before, it can have it again...

You said a Prayer of Mending that applies atonement. So basically permanent Atonement on most of the raid on any boss with pulsing damage/dots. Not sure why I even replied to this.

[theburned]

Oh, agreed to a point, a Disc is casting twice as many casts compared to the other healing classes, so...

and I respectfully disagree it would be "disgustingly broken".. Disc had POM before, it can have it again...

guess halo should apply attonements aswell?

[smitey]

I wish they would remove some GCD's with Disc spells. Considering how disc is always casting and every second can mean atonements falling off they should remove some GCD's on spells such as Barrier or Shadowfiend and my preferred Evangelion.

[Deleted]

I prefer the WOTLK playstyle of disc, but i cant complain with its current state if im completely honest.

[Valette]

I personally dont like the new disc, and would pretty much prefer anything but the current version. I understand why they dont want the old disc in the game, and I can agree with that. But I just dont find the playstyle of the current disc any fun. I understand disc's strengths and I am able to play it alright, not perfectly but well enough that my team doesnt suffer if I change my spec from holy to disc.

This doesnt necessarily mean I think they should remake the spec, Im aware there are a lot of people out there (and in here) that enjoy it. Im just saying that if they were to remake it, you wouldnt hear any protests from me ^^

[figurelight]

I feel like you don't understand why this is. Penance is so powerful because it has been massively power creeped over the entire expansion. Think back to Emerald Nightmare disc priest and compare Light's Wrath to Penance, there's no contest between the two spells.

once you start adding 7/7 traits, legendaries, and set bonus on to penance, it's no where light's wrath feels awful now. The big upside of the spell is comparable to a spell with a 9 second cooldown.


Have you ever considered that maybe blizzard doesn't think it's a problem for light's wrath to be worse in a 5 man? "raid" cooldowns have historically been bad in 5 man content, and this is true today.

Because something's always been bad isn't a good reason to do keep on doing something. It's the same silly logic that Ion uses for justifying his moronic use of RNG for everything ("Well, the games I played always had lots of RNG, so...)". It's like when vanilla started, only warriors could really tank, because that's what the designers were used to in EQ. It was beyond their limited reasoning powers to look beyond that.

Anyway, there isn't any distinction between a 'regular' cooldown or raid cooldown in itself. You can always use any CD at any time, but most scale way better in a raid. It's also obvious people are going to expect their big Artifact ability to be useful at all times because of all the thematics going into it, especially if they're new to the game.

The problem in Light's Wrath's case is that it's a victim of a really bad design team this go around, the same number-focused idiots that gutted most of the specs and cannibalized their gameplay into banality (which, by simple contrast, makes Disc seem that much more enjoyable). They were too stupid to realize that it and Penance are pretty much covering the same bases and couldn't see how that would play out in the future.

- - - Updated - - -

This is not the reason they make changes like that. :- /

Right, fun factor shouldn't have weight towards game decisions. All that really matters is that the meters line up.

[theburned]

I feel like you don't understand why this is. Penance is so powerful because it has been massively power creeped over the entire expansion. Think back to Emerald Nightmare disc priest and compare Light's Wrath to Penance, there's no contest between the two spells.

once you start adding 7/7 traits, legendaries, and set bonus on to penance, it's no where light's wrath feels awful now. The big upside of the spell is comparable to a spell with a 9 second cooldown.



Have you ever considered that maybe blizzard doesn't think it's a problem for light's wrath to be worse in a 5 man? "raid" cooldowns have historically been bad in 5 man content, and this is true today.

Yet LW being comparable to penance is still pretty irrelevant, as you dont really have to choose between them, you can still precast LW and follow up with penance, or you can use LW while penance is on cooldown. Same goes for 5 man. The strength of the cd is still not looking super weak in comparision to some of the other artifact abilities.

[sbaybevett]

guess halo should apply attonements aswell?

No just POM ( thou I admit I have never been a fan of Halo, went cascade when it was still an option for both the range and not being a risk to agro mobs..) Thou allow me to clarify, I am speaking of POM as it was back during 5.xx, where the first target healed an additional 60% , only had 4 total charges and casting a new POM would cancel any existing one.. Could allow the class to go back to playing the game instead of playing the boss addon timers..

[MendUS]

No just POM ( thou I admit I have never been a fan of Halo, went cascade when it was still an option for both the range and not being a risk to agro mobs..) Thou allow me to clarify, I am speaking of POM as it was back during 5.xx, where the first target healed an additional 60% , only had 4 total charges and casting a new POM would cancel any existing one.. Could allow the class to go back to playing the game instead of playing the boss addon timers..

Lol...........