If you enjoy it for the sake of it I guess (I don't think most people do anymore). Every other reason has basically been killed off (gear, participation is terrible, etc.).
If you enjoy it for the sake of it I guess (I don't think most people do anymore). Every other reason has basically been killed off (gear, participation is terrible, etc.).
Was that a /sarcasm message? Cause you know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sSX9GqBYvM
Nah. Participation numbers are likely down because of the gearing system. Spec and class wise, it is a fairly even playing field in PvP from a viability standpoint. Are there standouts? Of course, but not nearly to the extent usually present in WoW or other games for that matter.
Humans don't like RNG in this context. RNG works really well for micro-transactions or for rewards garnered with little effort. Plugging hours into PvP to maybe get the piece of gear you need just does not work well with the human mind because of how we value our time with respect to desired outputs. They seem to be coming to this understanding with the "obliterate" idea, though.
(Hire me Blizz, I can fix this for you rather easily.)
Last edited by Ohmega; 2017-07-19 at 06:43 PM.
Yeah.. no.
MoP was a shitbag. TBC was.... meh. It introduced the concept that balance should be built around deathmatch in a box and that wasn't good.
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compared to your 38 posts and nothing of merit said?
Youve literally been proven utterly wrong on every statement you've made.
Enjoy ignore.
You contribute nothing.
Things ive done though?
Proven the "gear doesn't matter" myth to be an outright lie via math.
Proven the ladder collapse with math and hard data. (and correctly predicted months ahead of time).
Proven the massive PvP decline with math and hard data. And correctly predicted it months ahead of time.
Proven the massive failure of templates, why they dont work, and how they will never work. (With math).
Proven the massive failure of the initial AP system and how it negatively impacted PvP in a massive way that proved the "you can just jump right into PvP in Legion" was a lie for the first 7 months. (With math).
Proven that the Honor system, as originally intended, was a 2 1/2 month slog to get all your honor talents unlocked to even begin to PvP. With math. Notice how they changed it within a month of launch. Predicted ahead of time.
Have the ability to look outside my own narrow zone of interest - which is fun group oriented PvP - and predicted how a lot of the changes will damage PvP as a whole for the entire community - those of us who view rated as cancerous shit and even those of you who like rated.
Things you've done:
Come into a thread and said "Blizzard is great" or "Nuh uh".
Bye, junior.
No, you can't, because 1+1 does not equal 3.
Broke the whole thing down months ago.
Gear matters precisely as much, or more, than it did before.
You. Are. Wrong.
That's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of basic addition and multiplication.
If you believe otherwise, then you don't really know how the system works and where the multipliers and templates interact with each other and how (which is excusable, since Blizzard has done a shit job documenting).
It's all been proven out in-game, too, dozens of times by equipping gear and reworking talents to verify the coefficients.
Gear is just as important now as it ever was. Period. Moreso, actually.
Ive been playing since the original beta son. You were what, 10?And no, not trolling, I genuinely believe that the classes are pretty well balanced at the moment. Maybe you haven't been around long enough to remember the shit storm that's been the previous expansions.
The class balance right now is a fucking joke. One-stun instagibs are not fun or balanced gameplay.
Nice ad hominem there.
I don't really see what point you're trying to make here. Even if some PvP players (or even a majority of them) consider TBC to be the best expansion pvp wise this doesn't change the fact that PvP participation is incredibly low (even lower than during WoD despite Legion being more successful according to Blizzard). Queue times are incredibly high, rating cut offs suggest low rated participation, 5v5 was removed, finding RBG groups has never been more bothersome and complicated and I haven't seen a 40v40 BG in a very long time (seems far-fetched but I'm starting to think there's not enough players queuing for BGs).
The easiest explanation for all these phenomena is that PvP is simply shit at the moment.
nah the people who complain are actually the good ones. For the casual that has now idea about pvp, and would be nothing but a victim in former expansions, the current pvp system is good. (people like you). Why? because they get a ilvl 900 template and their artifact leveld without doing anything. So now u can play your facerol bm hunter, and win a 1vs1 against a gladiator warrior, because u can use "aspect of the turtle" and send your pet onto him. Thats what sucks at legion pvp.
Skill doesnt make a significant difference, gear doesnt make any differance at all. Good people adjusted their pvp gear to the comp. i had gear for max throughput , gear for beeing trained, gear for max haste, gear for manareg as a heal shaman. All different stats, and i used them, and swapped according to comp and to opponents. This kind of stuff has been totally erased from the game, and the pvp talents are only a minor thing that resembles the system.
Going from over 60% of people participating in PvP as their primary end-game activity to less than 15% isn't a massive, long decline? Huh. You should maybe go back to school.
LOLWUT? Emerging into eSports? Literally NO ONE takes WoW seriously as an eSport. They can barely scrape together teams for their OWN EVENT at Blizzcon. HoTs and Overwatch get 50x the coverage of WoW as an eSport. WoW as an eSport has been a failure from day 1.Unless you call emerging into eSports, national and international tournaments with grand prizes totalling in the millions,
Yeah, huge surge. Which is why ladder participation is down almost 70%? Do you live in reverse-world, where when things are false, you believe them to be true?and a huge surge of players coming to the game not only for the PvE fun, but also for the competitive aspect of PvP
Enlighten me with your "wisdom" then. What was the point of PvP before rated?a "long decline". PvP has always had a point.
Oh, that tired, disproven, bullshit argument. When PvP provided meaningful progression, it had a healthy community. Now that we've gone what you idiots in the "Yurk yrk just PvP for funsies man you dont need rewards" crowd - no meaningful progression - PvP participation has declined SEVENTY FUCKING PERCENT since the last xpac, where it was already at an ALL TIME LOW. This is an MMO, not a Moba or a shooter. People play MMOs for progression. They play it for rewards. When PvP had healthy rewards, PvP was healthy. Now that PvP has no tangible rewards, its deader than shit. Weird.It's called *gasp* fun.
Most people left it. That's the point you dont seem to grasp. The number of people left even playing is a miniscule fraction of what it used to be.Some people find it frustrating, some people love it.
Sure there is. Proven and catalogued, with links to blue posts and everything. We went over this all about four times now. Once during Alpha, once during Beta, once after launch, and again about 2 1/2 months ago. With math, links to blue posts, forum posts, in-game video showing how stuff actually works.There is no "great big lie,"
Blizzard said the "new" PvP system was designed to do a number of things and address a number of things they felt were issues. Every one of those claims was disproven. Categorically. The threads are there, go read them. With links to proof and everything.
Nothing to do with insecurity. Everything to do with utter contempt for the people in question. If i dislike you, im not going to treat you nice. You dont deserve it and arent entitled to it, kiddo.unless the lie is that you know what you're talking about. Calling people "son" and "junior," haha. You're no doubt the most insecure MMO poster I've seen in months.
Feel free to refute any of the previous threads. Go right ahead. Work on my end has all been done, multiple times. Lets see the blue posts, links to Armory statistics, participation metrics, rating cutoffs, how the templates work, all of it, that proves me wrong.Clearly, nothing of merit or truth in your post. Just salt.
Go ahead.
We'll wait.
Fuck, we've been waiting since the Alpha. No one's managed to do it yet.
Why? Because we've been right the whole fucking time.
But, hey, i mean your post full of ad-hominem without a single link to a single fact, single bit of supporting evidence, and attacking me instead of the argument..
Yeah, you're a winner, kiddo.
And in case you haven't guessed? I have nothing but contempt for you bullshit either. Kiddo.
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Gear still makes a difference.
Your TEMPLATE is set at iLevel 900, but gear scaling still begins at iLevel 800.
If you're a gladiator-level player, this season 930-940 should be your average iLevel. That means you will have 13-14% flat stats advantage over someone who just dinged. And that's not taking anything else into account. (Stam can still differ as much as an ADDITIONAL 25% as well, among other things.)
The reason you aren't encountering that as a fresh casual is because those guys aren't even bothering to queue for BGs anymore. Glad players have no reason to set foor into a BG, ever. Before it could supplement their CQ cap. Now its totally meaningless.
Last edited by Kagthul; 2017-07-19 at 10:34 PM.
You want WoW style PVP that's actually somewhat balanced, and has no gear farming barrier to entry, where your skill actually matters? Go play guildwars 2. Everyone has access to all the same equipment. It's all normalized. There's no farming. No gear disparity. There IS some class disparity, and meta with your team comp. That's always going to exist in any RPG-style pvp. But it's still the best and most fair MMORPG pvp I've seen to date.
But as for whether or not there's a point to ranked PVP in wow? No, not really. Get your xmogs and your title if you really think it matters. Otherwise it's still the same dumpster fire that it's always been.
... if you mean "pulled straight from the Armor for 9 years in a row", sure. Again, go read the threads, provide some hard data to back up your claim, or shut the fuck up
In a thread, right here on this forum, with my name as the poster. Four different threads from different times, actually. Since i re-did the work every time something major about the system changed. That you're too much of a lazy shit to take ten seconds to look them up is NOT MY PROBLEM.You're clearly biased for whatever reason. PvP is fun and was largely accepted by the competitive community up until Legion, where there is a marked decline because Holinka really screwed the pooch. You can keep raging at your keyboard about how your "work is done, blah blah blah, facts blah blah bullshit facts blah blah".
Where are these links? Link them? Oh, that's right, it's all in your head.
I literally did. Go read it. Or not. I dont really care. You're wrong. Provably. Already proven.If you had links and you were humble in your knowledge of how things actually were, you'd post your data and let that speak for itself.
Your continued attempt at ad-hominem while providing NO counter-argument is awfully pathetic.Instead, you make feeble attempts to mock people's post counts while simultaneously pretending you're some PvP sleuth. I'm not sure what's more pathetic.
More ad-hominem, no real argumentI guess you're so blinded by your nerd rage that you forgot that video games and fun are subjective. What you obviously hate or can't do,
If they enjoyed it so much, it wouldn't have declined by over 70%.other people are good at and enjoy.
I'd say im part of the majority of people that feel that way. You know, the ones that aren't participating anymore.You can claim to be smart all you want, but until you admit that you're just one person that views things this way,
Well, you're certainly wasting MY time.I'm wasting my time.
You mean, other than the other forum threads where this has already been gone over? Yeah, none.You have no data,
At what? You've certainly won nothing here. You've made ad-hominem attacks, while accusing me of making them (lets be clear - im not.. im disproving their arguments with facts AND insulting them - on purpose, as a sign of contempt. You're just insulting me and NOT refuting my arguments.you have no links or decades of research dedicated to find this "great big lie". The fuck are you? Warcraft PvP Investigator? And you think we buy that? Go spit shine your badge, buddy.
I know I'm a winner.
No, i pointed out his post count in conjunction with statements he made that were obviously provocative to label him a troll.You're clearly a loser by the way you attack people to compensate. I'm just giving you a dose of your own medicine, calling you out on your great big lie of a post history. You literally make fun of people for their post count and you expect to be taken seriously? Suuuuure.
K. My contempt for you continues to grow, though.I'd pass the salt, but you clearly have a lifetime supply. Your contempt is so bold, it's impossible not to see it's a facade for an upset player incapable of properly PvPing.
Lets see that logic train played out. Go ahead, try it out.That's the only logical conclusion.
I accept your admission of being totally wrong and nothing more than an ad-hominem troll.You are the weakest link. Goodbye.
Basically: put up or shut up, kiddo.
I already did.
The only person with anything to prove here is you. And what do i see? Nothing.
Here's your argument in a nutshell:
You - "You're a meanie and wrong!"
Me - "Yes, im an asshole. Now prove how im wrong"
You - "I cant, but you're a meanie, so you're wrong. Because. I said so!"
That's the extent of it.
10 seconds to search my name and find the threads. Not my job to do it for you. If you want to refute my arguments, lets see it. Lets see some facts to back up your (utterly baseless) claims.
Otherwise? No one here will take you as anything other than what you are:
A blind, foolish shill who cant stand to be told he's wrong.
Bye, Kiddo.
Only in arenas, never bgs, and in S4 when resilience stacked up to high amounts.
Most of the time rdruids died in a warlocks fear.
TBC was the golden age of pvp by a landslide, no need to discuss it.
BGs were brooming, arena just got invented as a brand new thing, gameplay was rewarded and pruning never happened.
The best of all: DDs totally dominated the game until s4 when healers exploited high resi to ruin the fun, so at least 3/4 of TBCs pvp was great fun.
So far 0% of legion pvp was fun or made any sense. The majority of people simply ignore it or laugh at it. Fact. Read the damn chat channels and compare pve activity with pvp activity. PvP was very active in TBC i was there i started with it no BS talk here! The huge pvp decline allready started with wotlk, when blizzard decided to make 2 largely unpopular new bgs with machines, participation dropped instantly compared to TBC and rightly so. Blizz did great inventions in TBC(arena) and wotlk brought 2 reduntant bgs, making classes more mediocre/equal, and hybrids more dominant at the launch of the game.
Bwwwwwahahhhahahaaaa!
Hahahahhhhahaaaa!
Seriously, where do they get such folks from? They are just literally making shit up as they go.
Hey, buddy, you there? Where the heck do you see grand prizes for WoW tournaments totaling in the millions? And huge surge of players coming? And... sorry, hahahahhha... OMG... hahaha...
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Yeah, right, you have no clue. PVP was one of the main endgame activities before they broke it. Go figure.
Kagthul has way too much patience.