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  1. #21
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    No. Talent trees had choices to make (despite guide driven cookie cutter builds). With artifacts you just grind untill you have them all.

  2. #22
    No it's more like a slower version of the WoD spell improvements that you got as you levelled.

  3. #23
    Deleted
    extremely similar.

    old talent system had a lot of +1/2/3% fillers that led up to a few milestone talents, usually new abilities.
    artifact system has a lot of +1/2/3% fillers that lead up to a few milestone gold traits, usually new passive effects and procs.

    and in the original design of artifacts, getting to 34 traits took months so it had meaningful choices for a good while. it's really stupid all that is now skipped over in literally 1 world quest.

  4. #24
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehuehuecopter View Post
    20 Posts and only 3 of them arent bullshit.

    Artifact aren't like old talents BUT are WORKING like the OLD TALENTS, there are good trait and bad trait (aspect of turtle heal and crit aimed) but in the end it doesn't really matter(rip) since we pick ALL of them.



    Also please since nobody of the previous commenter have played VANILLA

    STOP

    WRITE

    "HURR DURR WE HAD CHOICE"


    WE NEVER HAVE CHOICE, WE JUST COPY CAT THE COOKIE BUILD, always picking the BEST talent, "sure lets pick this 2% MANA over 1% CRIT DMG DERP"


    Stop spread bs.
    limited choices are still choices

  5. #25
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    Seems like you don't know reason why they removed old talent system. Everyone was choosing cookie cutter builds and then they had few talents for some utilization. That's what you have now just you don't see the cookie cutter build.
    That's just the problem of a spreadsheet driven game. There will be mathematically optimal solution for everything.

    But with talents one could atleast in theory experiment and try out crazy builds. Artifacts have none of that, only linear power gains.

  6. #26
    Stop
    Pretend
    There
    Was
    CHOICE
    On
    Vanilla
    Talent
    Tree



    Thank You.

  7. #27
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehuehuecopter View Post
    Stop
    Pretend
    There
    Was
    CHOICE
    On
    Vanilla
    Talent
    Tree



    Thank You.
    Stop pretending there wasn't.

    OT: Yes, but worse, since you can't mix and match.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobislost View Post
    limited choices are still choices
    Like current Talent Tree.


    But now you switch actually good talent not "MHHH 2% STR or 2% INT?"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfield View Post
    Stop pretending there wasn't.

    OT: Yes, but worse, since you can't mix and match.
    Guess you never played vanilla, but paint me puzzled if people there knows they talking about

  9. #29
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehuehuecopter View Post
    Stop
    Pretend
    There
    Was
    CHOICE
    On
    Vanilla
    Talent
    Tree



    Thank You.
    Yes there was. It was stupid to not go for the mathematically superior minmax build, but you could screw around with it if you wanted to.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehuehuecopter View Post
    Guess you never played vanilla, but paint me puzzled if people there knows they talking about
    Gimping oneself by choice is, well, a choice, so... They aren't exactly wrong

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Yes there was. It was stupid to not go for the mathematically superior minmax build, but you could screw around with it if you wanted to.
    Sure like NOW so.


    Quote Originally Posted by lightspark View Post
    Well, gimping yourself is a choice, so... They aren't exactly wrong
    ahahah true

    - - - Updated - - -

    Let's seee how cool was the "choice"

    http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#o

    ARCANE

    "less pushback on arcane missles" wow

    "WAND DMG" lel

    "shitty talent (armor=% int) to unlock -> better talent (max mana)"

    "IMPROVED MANA SHIELD" ELEGIGGLE


    and then LOOK

    0 CHOICE and JUST GOOD TALENT


    tld;dr

    When you have a row with 3-4 talent there are shit and good, then when there is only 1 or 2 GUESS WHAT they are good.
    Last edited by Ehuehuecopter; 2017-07-21 at 08:56 AM.

  12. #32
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehuehuecopter View Post
    Guess you never played vanilla, but paint me puzzled if people there knows they talking about
    So, beside not knowing what "choice" means, you're also terrible at guessing. Care to share any more of your flaws, or was that it?

    Just because a majority (This, opposed to popular perception, does not mean the same thing as "everyone") followed a guide on-line regarding their talent choices does not mean you, personally, didn't have a choice to stray from that path. You might experience peer pressure for choosing to do so, but again, giving into that is your choice.

    Sure, you might argue away the meaning of those choices (Bravo, that's a really hard thing to do. /s).There's 3 builds of Frost Mages that come to mind. Deep Frost, Frost & Fire and Frost & Arcane and all of them made game-play different. And I'd argue that is kinda relevant for a game.

    Not to mention that different talents suit different situations and play styles. I had a mage with whom I only farmed Dalaran wizards, those that drop that Apprentice Robes item so beloved by Alliance role players. Magic Absorption was the best talent in the whole game in that context.
    Last edited by mmoc87fc7e9041; 2017-07-21 at 09:05 AM.

  13. #33
    Deleted
    So many posts and no one will say "No this is basicaly recycled "Path of the Titan" system that was scrapped before Cata launched"?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfield View Post
    So, beside not knowing what "choice" means, you're also terrible at guessing. Care to share any more of your flaws, or was that it?

    Just because a majority (This, opposed to popular perception, does not mean the same thing as "everyone") followed a guide on-line regarding their talent choices does not mean you, personally, didn't have a choice to stray from that path. You might experience peer pressure for choosing to do so, but again, giving into that is your choice.

    Sure, you might argue away the meaning of those choices (Bravo, that's a really hard thing to do. /s).There's 3 builds of Frost Mages that come to mind. Deep Frost, Frost & Fire and Frost & Arcane and all of them made game-play different. And I'd argue that is kinda relevant for a game.
    And still people played the cookie cutter so really proving nothing rather than "it is like now" nice try


    Quote Originally Posted by Deithy View Post
    So many posts and no one will say "No this is basicaly recycled "Path of the Titan" system that was scrapped before Cata launched"?
    How can be recycled if it was scrapped?

  15. #35
    Deleted
    All the morons here who say that you didnt have any choice or that hybrid specs sucked can google 33/28/0 arms pve, Gg wp.

  16. #36
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehuehuecopter View Post
    And still people played the cookie cutter so really proving nothing rather than "it is like now" nice try
    So, you're basically here throwing a tantrum that there wasn't any choice, but you won't defend that statement beyond: "There was no choice!!!".

  17. #37
    Sure because HYBRID SPEC doesn't mean "MIN MAX" but just "I LIKE TO PUT RANDOM TALENT #mytree #mychoice"


    christ if you are tard

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Deldramar View Post
    And you can't make hybrid specs
    I think you miss-spelled shitty specs or mandatory specs

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfield View Post
    So, you're basically here throwing a tantrum that there wasn't any choice, but you won't defend that statement beyond: "There was no choice!!!".
    There isnt no choice, you just play the bis/cookie cutter.

    Like now.

    You can ofc "choose" but still you choose the BIS talent, so don't try to "ehueuhhe flaw logic" only flaw is yours about a real choice that makes all "choices" valid like cookiebuild.


    My tantrum is just because people argue "HURR DURR WE HAD CHOICE BACK IN !!!" like if now we don't have.

  20. #40
    It's the same idea as old talents, you just can get everything in the end. Or even closer, the WoD perks. The only things that change are availability (you can get all of them) and how getting the perks is timed (over time instead of over levels).

    Can even think of artifact traits + talents as the old talent tree, with a split to simplify choices (fluff you always take is traits, stuff they want you to choose is talents).

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