Top Bosses that remained unkilled - wipe count version

[Magemaer]

Starting a new list but now with wipe count
Currently only with WoD and Legion but we'll update it to include declared wipe counts from MoP and Cata, at least.

#1 Kil'Jaeden, Tomb of Sargeras - 654 (Method)
!!innacurate!! Ragnaros, Firelands - 500+ (Paragon) ; in their site they say 500+ wipes they lost count at some point
#2 Archimonde, Hellfire Citadel - 472 (Method)
#3 Fallen Avatar, Tomb of Sargeras - 453 (Method)
#4 Blackhand, Blackrock Foundry - 325 (Method)
!!innacurate!! Lei Shen, Throne of Thunder - 310 (Method) ; i need a better source on this one
#5 Garrosh, Siege of Orgrimmar -272 (Method)
#6 Gul'Dan, Nighthold - 248 (Exorsus)
#7 Siegecrafter, Siege of Orgrimmar - 229 (Method)
#8 Elisande, Nighthold -229 (Serenity)
#9 Paragons, Siege of Orgrimmar - 222 (Method)
#10 Xhul'Horac, Hellfire Citadel - 180 (Method)

To do: retrieve as much as possible from MoP and Cata. We're lacking ToT official count, aswell as tier 14. We're lacking Cata's tier 11; aswell as tier 13 (which was a mess).
Before Cata that wipe count wasn't a thing.

Notable: Paragon's Garrosh10 had above 600 wipes.

Interesting references:
-Yogg0 World Second (Paragon) - ~160 ; we don't know how many tries the world first (Stars) did. Note: boss was nerfed during their progress period, Stars killed it a day before nerf.
-LichKing25H (Paragon) - 170+; limited attempts, only guild to beat the fight on 5%

Cataclysm
Mists of Pandaria
Warlords of Draenor
Legion

[Deleted]

I have heard that LK was around 150 wipes for Paragon

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Edit: 170wipes for LK. Source : http://www.paragon.fi/node/86.html

[Echocho]

Why have you only picked certain bosses and only from the last 3 expansions? There have been bosses in the game that remained unkilled for months instead of days.

[Arcanines]

Why have you only picked certain bosses and only from the last 3 expansions? There have been bosses in the game that remained unkilled for months instead of days.

Because would you say C'thun lasted months or lasted 1 day. Examples like that for nonirrelevant bosses.

[Kaleredar]

Why have you only picked certain bosses and only from the last 3 expansions? There have been bosses in the game that remained unkilled for months instead of days.

That's back when people thought Onyxia's deep breath was based on how many warlocks in the raid had their class mount or how many priests in your raid had killed golemagg but not Lucifron that week.

They didn't keep track, and even the top guilds probably didn't muster the hundreds of relentless attempts within those months.

[Deleted]

Why have you only picked certain bosses and only from the last 3 expansions? There have been bosses in the game that remained unkilled for months instead of days.

Because there is no data for those fights (but maybe you have some)?
But anyway, all Vanilla and TBC bosses have wipe counts no way near those of today's even though some lasted months. Because guilds were raiding less, it was harder to coordinate 40 persons, and the delay between each pull was huge (because of run back, and waiting for 40 people to be ready, rebuffing everyone etc..).
Gigantic wipe counts started in Wotlk.

[MrExcelion]

First few hundred on KJ were mostly wasted pulls before they fixed the fight (and progression "started" according to them). Wonder how much its taking to start to finish nowadays

[Deleted]

160 wipes roughly for Paragon to kill Yogg 0
source : https://www.paragon.fi/node/25.html

[Keashaa]

160 wipes roughly for Paragon to kill Yogg 0
source : https://www.paragon.fi/node/25.html

That doesn't count as YS+0 first kill wasn't achieved by Paragon.

[Magemaer]

Edit: 170wipes for LK. Source : http://www.paragon.fi/node/86.html

160 wipes roughly for Paragon to kill Yogg 0
source : https://www.paragon.fi/node/25.html

Although these fights were in quite different contexts than current mythic (LK being held by limited attempts, and Ulduar being Ulduar), i think these numbers are quite cool to have. I'll be posting them as reference. Thanks from bringing that up!

[Echocho]

Because there is no data for those fights (but maybe you have some)?
But anyway, all Vanilla and TBC bosses have wipe counts no way near those of today's even though some lasted months. Because guilds were raiding less, it was harder to coordinate 40 persons, and the delay between each pull was huge (because of run back, and waiting for 40 people to be ready, rebuffing everyone etc..).
Gigantic wipe counts started in Wotlk.

In that case shouldn't the metric be time spent instead of number of wipes? Some bosses wipe you early, some late. Some have trash or other preparations to be made. Number of wipes doesn't say much really.

[Deleted]

That doesn't count as YS+0 first kill wasn't achieved by Paragon.

Yeah i know, but couldn't find any data on Stars wipe count. Paragon kill was only 3 days later, so i suppose their wipe count should be similar

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In that case shouldn't the metric be time spent instead of number of wipes? Some bosses wipe you early, some late. Some have trash or other preparations to be made. Number of wipes doesn't say much really.

There is already a classement with this metrics. This metrics as also a LOT of flaws: Limited attemps (Lich King, Raden?), bugs (Cthun that got killed the day he got hotfixed), "time gating thingy" (ex: Al akir that lasted a long time but only because their was a lot of other bosses in the tier that guilds were progressing on (he died 4 days after Sinestra i think?).

[Quru]

Anything for Helya? Im pretty sure method had around 220+ on there as well.

[Deleted]

In that case shouldn't the metric be time spent instead of number of wipes? Some bosses wipe you early, some late. Some have trash or other preparations to be made. Number of wipes doesn't say much really.

Case and point around 330 wipes for Dark Animus, most of them within 25 seconds.

[Deleted]

Case and point around 330 wipes for Dark Animus, most of them within 25 seconds.

When are you coming back man ?

[Nitros14]

Yogg-Saron is weird because of +1 existing and being fairly hard. I feel like attempts spent on doing one light should be added to the ~160 for alone in the darkness.

[Magemaer]

Yogg-Saron is weird because of +1 existing and being fairly hard. I feel like attempts spent on doing one light should be added to the ~160 for alone in the darkness.

Indeed Yogg0 is very hard to qualify. Not only because of lower modes that count as progress, but also the raiding agenda was pretty hectic in Ulduar. For instance, Paragon killed Yogg1 May25 (after being done with Freya 3x), then Firefighter June 2, then Algalon June 16. And on July 10 they got world second Yogg0, which was after nerf. And yet they say they only spent the week prior to July 10 working on Yogg0. And many other top guilds weren't putting much effort into the encounter.
It was a strange situation. Algalon was seen by many as the endboss, and Yogg0 had the legend of being mathematically impossible at the time (which was proved false ofc).


Regarding the value of wipe counts, that some are discussing, it's just another metric to add up. In the end the idea of 'hardest boss' is subjective, and each fight is its own beast.
And yet info like days boss spent alive, wipe count, time spent progressing on boss (also quality time spent on boss, that is, not being hampered by bugs) are all interesting metrics to compare bosses and reflect about each encounter.

Btw players and former players of top guilds: if you can, help us retrieve info so we can make the list better.

[Nitros14]

It's also weird because guilds got to farm so much gear before doing Alone in the Darkness. Like months and months worth.

[Raiju]

First few hundred on KJ were mostly wasted pulls before they fixed the fight (and progression "started" according to them). Wonder how much its taking to start to finish nowadays

Isn't really a fair comment. They wouldn't have been making it cleanly through p1/transition straight off the fix without all those wipes. They may have done it less, but that's hard to gauge and it clearly would've taken them numerous just to get used to the increased soaking & tank add in p1 going in fresh.

[Magemaer]

It's also weird because guilds got to farm so much gear before doing Alone in the Darkness. Like months and months worth.

If i remember well only one 232 piece dropped from hardmode bosses. Hardmodes opened April 21 (US, 22 EU) so they had about 2 months and a half of these dropping prior to Yogg0 being killed, around 10 resets.
Dropping only one 232 piece per boss it took a while to gear your raid with heroic mode gear, and some hardmodes weren't defeated until later on.

And ofc multiple runs to funnel gear wasn't a thing back then.

All that summed explains why it took so long for guilds to be geared enough for yogg0.
I think i remember Stars interview mentioning they had a huge rooster, so they could pick a lot of well geared warlocks for this fight. In the end they were the only guild to beat it pre nerf.

I think if guilds had the mentality we have today and had the practice of doing multiple raids, Yogg0 would fall days if not weeks sooner.