Service Dogs and the ADA

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Two other points of the ADA:

A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence.

If a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may also be charged for damage caused by himself or his service animal.

I doubt the restaurant (or whatever) would be liable for any damage caused by the service animal in the event that it did bite someone...in most situations, they simply don't have the authority to deny service or request the service animal remain outside. Any decent lawyer should be able to make the case that the company simply did not have any choice but to allow the service animal in and therefore can not be held liable for an attack.

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So establishments are unable to say exclude service animals (or "service animals" since people can be assholes and would likely abuse the fact that no one can challenge their claims of needing a service animal) no matter what? What if I own a shop and I'm allergic to dog hair or whatever? What if I had a traumatic experience with a dog attack when I was younger?

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.

[I Push Buttons]

I have no problem with service animals going literally anywhere else, but the ADA should draw the line at restaurants.

Your right to have an animal follow you around shouldn't come at the expense of other people potentially not having a clean place to eat. And the restaurants can do nothing to distinguish if your animals is clean and healthy... They can't ask for paperwork showings its vaccinated, they can't ask you if its clean or just ate a piece of shit on the sidewalk, they can't even ask you to prove its a service dog.

Way too many privileges granted to the disabled in this particular regard. They should at least have to fork over some kind of certification/card if asked. You can't just park in a disabled parking spot and claim you are disabled, you have to have a disability placard.

Some might argue its just a medical device, you wouldn't ask someone to prove why they need a wheelchair... I am in a wheelchair. My wheelchair can't potentially bite people, it doesn't eat shit laying around on the ground, people can't be allergic to my wheelchair, etc. Other than laying eyes on it, it can have no conceivable impact on them.

[Dextroden]

Two other points of the ADA:



I doubt the restaurant (or whatever) would be liable for any damage caused by the service animal in the event that it did bite someone...in most situations, they simply don't have the authority to deny service or request the service animal remain outside. Any decent lawyer should be able to make the case that the company simply did not have any choice but to allow the service animal in and therefore can not be held liable for an attack.

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https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

There you have it. Service animal trumps most things.

[belfpala]

They can't ask for paperwork showings its vaccinated....

Can't ask the cooks to show paperwork for that either. lol.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I have no problem with service animals going literally anywhere else, but the ADA should draw the line at restaurants.

Your right to have an animal follow you around shouldn't come at the expense of other people potentially not having a clean place to eat. And the restaurants can do nothing to distinguish if your animals is clean and healthy... They can't ask for paperwork showings its vaccinated, they can't ask you if its clean or just ate a piece of shit on the sidewalk, they can't even ask you to prove its a service dog.

Fuck the disabled if they wanna get themselves a McRib, am I right?

As long as the owner can keep the service animal in their immediate vicinity...there really is no public health risk. If the owner cannot keep control of their service animal...they can be asked to remove it from the premises.

[I Push Buttons]

Fuck the disabled if they wanna get themselves a McRib, am I right?

As long as the owner can keep the service animal in their immediate vicinity...there really is no public health risk. If the owner cannot keep control of their service animal...they can be asked to remove it from the premises.

How would needing to show a McDonald's employee some form of certification proving the dog is a service animal and legally allowed in the restaurant prevent a disabled person from getting their McRib?

The way the law currently stands, I could go grab a random street dog covered and bugs and shit and roll into a restaurant claiming its my service animal... All they can do is ask if its a service animal and if I say yes, they can't do anything else until it starts barking or shitting.

[cparle87]

My only issue with the service animal issue is the individuals who insist on making some unusual animal their service animal.

Dogs are fine, I wouldn't question one. But I'm sorry, I don't you want you bringing your "emotional support" chicken or turkey in and shitting everywhere.

Thankfully, from what I see, emotional support animals don't fall under the same protections as a service animal.

I remember this story a while back where this woman caused a ruckus because an airline wouldn't let her bring her "service anaconda" with her inside the plane with her. As in drapes all over her shoulders several foot long anaconda.

[Endus]

And what if the pet ISN'T trained? And bites someone? Is the business responsible because they allowed the animal inside? Will the federal govt pick up the tab since they'll allow it? My criticism isn't about the person and their disability, it's that the animal can go wherever, and you can't even inquire if it's ACTUALLY trained.

The point is that the law basically forbids establishments from actually verifying this, which means someone could bring in an untrained animal and lie about it and the establishment just has to accept it.

So his question is, what's the establishment's legal responsibility if someone lies about their animal and that animal then attacks someone?

I have no issues with these laws, but it's an interesting question.

I think it's an easy question; if the business owner can't verify the service animal's certification, then they can't have any legal responsibility; if the animal isn't certified and attacks someone, it's the animal owner's responsibility entirely.

A store owner can't strip search customers as they come in, and if one sneaks in a concealed weapon and stabs another customer, that's not the owner's fault either. Same difference.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

How would needing to show a McDonald's employee some form of certification proving the dog is a service animal and legally allowed in the restaurant prevent a disabled person from getting their McRib?

The way the law currently stands, I could go grab a random street dog covered and bugs and shit and roll into a restaurant claiming its my service animal... All they can do is ask if its a service animal and if I say yes, they can't do anything else until it starts barking or shitting.

They can ask the service dog be removed at any time it is out of it's owners control.

[I Push Buttons]

They can ask the service dog be removed at any time it is out of it's owners control.

That doesn't prevent it from coming inside in the first place, kiddo.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

That doesn't prevent it from coming inside in the first place, kiddo.

Unless the dog is actually making your order....I'd be more concerned about whether or not that minimum wage burger flipper washes his hands after he takes a shit.

[DarkTZeratul]

Dogs are fine, I wouldn't question one. But I'm sorry, I don't you want you bringing your "emotional support" chicken or turkey in and shitting everywhere.

Emotional support animals are an entirely different issue, and are extremely open to abuse because there really exist no regulations whatsoever. By and large emotional support animals are really only designated as such because someone said so, even if their only qualification for being able to say so is that they were paid to do so.

Just to share a personal story, my sister's roommate in college got a dog with her boyfriend. When they broke up, she kept the dog. My sister, however, is allergic to dogs and told her she couldn't keep it. So her roommate went to the landlord and told them she was so distraught over breaking up with her boyfriend that she needed it as her emotional support animal. The complex told my sister (and my dad, when he attempted to intervene on her behalf) that because it was an emotional support animal their hands were tied and they couldn't do anything. Frustratingly, their inability to do anything extended to allowing my sister to break the lease, forcing her to continue paying rent even after she moved out until she found someone to sublet.

Thankfully, from what I see, emotional support animals don't fall under the same protections as a service animal.

The ADA explicitly does not include emotional support animals:

"A service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability... Emotional support animals, comfort animals, and therapy dogs are not service animals under Title II and Title III of the ADA. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not considered service animals either. The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the individual’s disability. It does not matter if a person has a note from a doctor that states that the person has a disability and needs to have the animal for emotional support. A doctor’s letter does not turn an animal into a service animal."

[I Push Buttons]

Unless the dog is actually making your order....I'd be more concerned about whether or not that minimum wage burger flipper washes his hands after he takes a shit.

So you have no actual argument against my position?

Cool.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

So you have no actual argument against my position?

Cool.

Your position that a person could just randomly decide to pick up the filthiest animal it could find and deliberately bring it into a restaurant? If that person can maintain control over this random animal...then it isn't a problem. If they can't control this random animal...the animal can be removed.

Unless the animal is coming into direct contact with you or your food...there isn't an issue.

[Xargoth6634]

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.

I think that's absolutely ridiculous.

[I Push Buttons]

Your position that a person could just randomly decide to pick up the filthiest animal it could find and deliberately bring it into a restaurant? If that person can maintain control over this random animal...then it isn't a problem. If they can't control this random animal...the animal can be removed.

Unless the animal is coming into direct contact with you or your food...there isn't an issue.

No my position is that someone with a service animal should have to prove its a service animal if they want to bring it in a restaurant.

The filthy street dog was merely an example to illustrate the absurdity of giving people such an extreme benefit of the doubt.

These laws exist to accommodate people with disabilities... Yet a perfectly healthy person can go and take the previously mentioned disgusting street dog and walk into a restaurant with it, claiming its a service dog. And the restaurant can do nothing about it unless the dog defecates or becomes unruly.

That is absurd, in my opinion.

[Dextroden]

Unless the dog is actually making your order....I'd be more concerned about whether or not that minimum wage burger flipper washes his hands after he takes a shit.

I'm glad there's a sink in the kitchen at my pizza place that people can see. I wash in the bathroom and then there just to keep people like you happy.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

No my position is that someone with a service animal should have to prove its a service animal if they want to bring it in a restaurant.

The filthy street dog was merely an example to illustrate the absurdity of giving people such an extreme benefit of the doubt.

These laws exist to accommodate people with disabilities... Yet a perfectly healthy person can go and take the previously mentioned disgusting street dog and walk into a restaurant with it, claiming its a service dog. And the restaurant can do nothing about it unless the dog defecates or becomes unruly.

That is absurd, in my opinion.

Then punish the people that are abusing the law. Many States already have laws making it illegal to pass a pet off as a service animal.

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I'm glad there's a sink in the kitchen at my pizza place that people can see. I wash in the bathroom and then there just to keep people like you happy.

There was a sink in the kitchen at the pizza place I worked at as well...I did the same.

But let me be clear...I wasn't suggesting that most restaurant employees don't wash their hands...merely that it's more of a risk than allowing service dogs in a restaurant

[I Push Buttons]

Then punish the people that are abusing the law. Many States already have laws making it illegal to pass a pet off as a service animal.

AND HOW DO THEY DO THAT FRIENDERINO?

It is ILLEGAL for the restaurant to inquire further after you tell them its a service dog. Unless the asshole walks out of the restaurant shouting from the rooftops that they aren't actually disabled and the dog isn't actually their service animal, what can be done?

Trick question, fucking nothing can be done because of the absurdity of the current law.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

AND HOW DO THEY DO THAT FRIENDERINO?

It is ILLEGAL for the restaurant to inquire further after you tell them its a service dog. Unless the asshole walks out of the restaurant shouting from the rooftops that they aren't actually disabled and the dog isn't actually their service animal, what can be done?

If throughout the course of the customers stay in the store..you never had cause to question whether or not it was a service dog...then it really doesn't matter if it was or not.

However, if that dog was not under the control of it's owner than you certainly have options. You can inform the customer that they need to remove their animal from the premises immediately and if they do not comply you will call the authorities...and they can determine if that dog is actually a service animal.