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  1. #1

    Arcane: can't build 4 AC's without going OOM

    So I have this issue: during conserve I often times have to Barrage at 2-3 Arcane Charge stacks, because if I don't - I go OOM way too fast.

    This also means that I have to use Missiles at 2-3 AC's.

    I also feel that my DPS as Arcane, compared to Frost (which for me isn't even Crit-capped), is very low. With this gear my Arcane DPS is ~600, while with Frost (same ilvl) I get ~800.

    It probably has to do with my OOM problem. Any help would be much appreciated.

    Thanks.

    Edit: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...en-mill/nevian
    Last edited by Neviannn; 2017-07-24 at 09:07 AM.

  2. #2
    The Patient Synthium's Avatar
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    Link to your character? Logs?
    In the dark rain the grey mountains sing
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    Under the dead sky, under the withered trees

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthium View Post
    Link to your character? Logs?
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...en-mill/nevian

    I don't have any logs, sadly.

  4. #4
    Going to 4 AC is no longer mana positive or even neutral.
    This means you have to stop bursting earlier, because even the conservative phase "costs" mana. How much earlier completely depends on your gear, mastery or 4pT19 play a major role here.

    The legendary pants are a gamechanger here, making the conservative rotation mana positive again and have a great synergy with T20.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Going to 4 AC is no longer mana positive or even neutral.
    This means you have to stop bursting earlier, because even the conservative phase "costs" mana. How much earlier completely depends on your gear, mastery or 4pT19 play a major role here.

    The legendary pants are a gamechanger here, making the conservative rotation mana positive again and have a great synergy with T20.
    So it's considered ok to Barrage and/or Missiles at 2-3 charges?

  6. #6
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Aren't you supposed to stop bursting at ~80% after evo? Unless you have the fancypants when you can dump your mana and have mana positive conserve phase?

    Now way you are running all your mana during evocation CD, that's fucking impossible
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Neviannn View Post
    So it's considered ok to Barrage and/or Missiles at 2-3 charges?
    Generally you should aim for having 4 stacks AC when you burn 3+ procs of AM. And when AP comes off CD (before evo) you should have enough mana to burst through the whole duration (again depending on your gear, a rule of thumb is about 30% with overpowered of course), and to reach this it is unavoidable due to the randomness of AM procs that you might have to barrage at lower stacks.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Neviannn View Post
    So it's considered ok to Barrage and/or Missiles at 2-3 charges?
    You don't have kilt yet so you should enter conserve phase immediately after using evo.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Caath View Post
    You don't have kilt yet so you should enter conserve phase immediately after using evo.
    I understand. My problem, however, is that during conserve phase I go out of mana if I don't Barrage/Missiles at 2-3 stacks. In other words, I can't get to 4 AC stacks without going OOM before Evo comes off cooldown.

  10. #10
    The Patient Suliso's Avatar
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    Hmm when I am in the conserve phase I loose 10% mana per 4 AC
    So usually I go into burn with 50%-70% mana depends if I used Mark of Eluneth and got 20% mana back.
    Care to explain how your conserve phase looks like maybe something is off

  11. #11
    Over 9000! Lei Shi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Now way you are running all your mana during evocation CD, that's fucking impossible
    It's not impossible, it's guaranteed if you are below 900 ilvl and don't have kilt. During EN times, even the conservation phase would run you OOM within 40 seconds.
    The Arcane spec design is an absolute disaster, where you can only get anywhere if you're geared to the teeth and have all mandatory legendaries on top of it.

    WoD Arcane was worse than MoP Arcane, but it was still a god-like playstyle compared to Legion.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Neviannn View Post
    I understand. My problem, however, is that during conserve phase I go out of mana if I don't Barrage/Missiles at 2-3 stacks. In other words, I can't get to 4 AC stacks without going OOM before Evo comes off cooldown.
    That is super odd. I am at 30% mastery like you and when I am playing without kilt I often have to burn my mana to time it with evo. Can you make some video with you hitting dumny or logs? It would help us to discover what causes it

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    During EN times, even the conservation phase would run you OOM within 40 seconds.
    Yes, this is exactly what I'm experiencing. Only difference is that these aren't EN times and I'm half-decently geared.

  14. #14
    That's really weird. You've got twice as much mastery as me and only like ~2% more haste, but even clipping Evocation just after the second tick (the 66% mark) I still have plenty of mana to do the rotation into perpetuity even with Bloodlust.

    Are you using Mark of Aluneth as close to on CD as possible while ensuring you're not wasting the mana it generates?

    Edit: You should absolutely have enough mana to sustain the rotation with your gear, so the problem has to be in your rotation somewhere.

  15. #15
    The ring - soul of the archmage - you're using increases your mana consumption as it increases your number of arcane blasts and you're not running t19 2-piece (nighthold set) which is imho still huge as the extra arcane missiles will save you alot of mana. You should try using this 2-piece and see if it alleviates your issues. It doesn't matter if it is a minor ilvl downgrade.
    Last edited by Deiae; 2017-07-25 at 08:37 PM.

  16. #16
    Nobody can help if you don't have logs or at least a way to explain what it is you're doing exactly. People keep bringing this problem up and I stopped and tried this with more haste, a whispers, and less mastery than you have on your gear with the only leggo equipped being the ring you use and I still do not oom myself building to 4AC repeatedly without any t19 equipped. My arcane weapon also does not have a single AM proc chance relic. It is rather tight but you have to be doing something wrong. Are you accidentally spamming 4AC ABs after your evo without clearing?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey One View Post
    Nobody can help if you don't have logs or at least a way to explain what it is you're doing exactly. People keep bringing this problem up and I stopped and tried this with more haste, a whispers, and less mastery than you have on your gear with the only leggo equipped being the ring you use and I still do not oom myself building to 4AC repeatedly without any t19 equipped. My arcane weapon also does not have a single AM proc chance relic. It is rather tight but you have to be doing something wrong. Are you accidentally spamming 4AC ABs after your evo without clearing?
    Yeah well sadly I don't have logs/videos. I don't ABlast at 4AC at all. I can't even afford to ABlast at 3AC most of the time because I OOM way too fast. I'll just let it be for now I guess and hope for changes or the Legendary Kilt.

  18. #18
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    It's not impossible, it's guaranteed if you are below 900 ilvl and don't have kilt. During EN times, even the conservation phase would run you OOM within 40 seconds.
    The Arcane spec design is an absolute disaster, where you can only get anywhere if you're geared to the teeth and have all mandatory legendaries on top of it.

    WoD Arcane was worse than MoP Arcane, but it was still a god-like playstyle compared to Legion.
    Not going to argue about spec design, since this iteration of arcane is finally enjoyable for me, but it still makes no sense,
    after evocating to full you spend at worst 35% of base mana (3 + (3+3,75) + (3+3,75+3,75) + (3+3,75+3,75+3,75) +0,5), so it's 385000 mana out of 1100000 mana pool, throw in 28% mastery - 1408000, with regen of 1,8% and length of "one conserve cycle" of 9 seconds (literally no haste involved) you get back 16% max mana, which is 225280, so to spend all of your mana on conserve phase you pretty much need to cast for 80 seconds straight. So either i pulled 1,8% mana regen out of my ass, or in extreme cases of bad luck (no AM procs) you are expected to go out of mana.

    I would advice OP to pick supernova or nether tempest and familiar and dump your charges when you have less than 90% mana. The purpose of conserve phae is to conserve mana while doing some damage, ideally you want to be at 90% mana before burn phase, so dropping below 90 it acceptable for, say, purpose of dumping 3 AM while you are on top of rune, then continuing to ABarr on 1-2-or-3 charges
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Neviannn View Post
    Yeah well sadly I don't have logs/videos. I don't ABlast at 4AC at all. I can't even afford to ABlast at 3AC most of the time because I OOM way too fast. I'll just let it be for now I guess and hope for changes or the Legendary Kilt.
    It doesn't take long to go get some logs. You're clearly playing incorrectly, go spend 30minutes, get some logs together, and post them here.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Deiae View Post
    The ring - soul of the archmage - you're using increases your mana consumption as it increases your number of arcane blasts and you're not running t19 2-piece (nighthold set) which is imho still huge as the extra arcane missiles will save you alot of mana. You should try using this 2-piece and see if it alleviates your issues. It doesn't matter if it is a minor ilvl downgrade.
    Someone actually noticed. Bassicaly you have a mana eating leggo and another pretty much useless for arcane leggo. Also for your condition your masterry should be 40% and more. As this user said try to get tier19 2/4 it will help and if you can/have other leggos replace em since archmages soul is for really high ilvls and KJ is really not that good. Also i wish you luck with your next leggos you need a mana giving one badly (kilt or evo hat)

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