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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Faltharion View Post
    We already had one log disprove this myth, and i was about to go and agree with Spryte that both yes, we are in the tail of dps in tanks and yes it does not break us has a tank so it does not matter. If you wish to make a statement like that show us proof. Stating that logs are available and shouting argument's does not make them any truer.

    Stating that you can argue but you don't need to prove your statement goes against the basis or arguing. If you wish to be heard you have to show factual evidence that your right. That's scientific process right there, if you have a theory you both try to prove and disprove it.

    I also do not agree about bloodrinker argument being better then the other options, and following the crowd with out evidence is not my cake. because by Spryte logs he only truly healed from it on the first hammer, where did other eight go? Now if you tell me your using it to add to your DPS and you can forgo the extra runic power from HS talent. Then yes i do believe you and your logs back you up on that.

    Also the "every one does it argument" does not sit well for me.

    And your proving my point with the adds case, because your marrowrending further consuming extra resources. I been doing mythics casually, and that is what stresses the most out of the classes resources.

    Has for pointless discussion, well the basis of understanding is a good discussion with factual proof. I learn from you, you learn from me that's my thought's.
    Want some evidence?

    Let me start this off by saying there are many ways to interpret the statistics data that WCL provides. There are also many ways to make it appear that Blood's dps situation is worse than it actually is. Here is the methodology used

    Methodology

    The 75th Percentile generally gives the best picture in terms of overall performance. This number is around normal RNG with good play. Higher percentiles are dependent on some combination of near perfect play and good RNG. High parses are also more abusable by tanks who may be able to sacrifice survival through trinkets and legendaries for more dps oriented options. This is why simply looking at high percentiles is wrong.

    Its also worth noting that Blood has some the least amount of damage that is dependent on RNG (I think Monks have lower but I could be wrong). Blood has 2 real RNG elements, extra Bone Shield charges on Marrowrend through our Artifact tree, a very small increase when it procs, and Crimson Scourge procs which is something. These don't come close to the power of getting more frequent usage out of Mangle, Shield Slam, Avenger's Shield etc. I note this because high percentile parses typically have the best RNG. Other tank specs have higher potentials due to having more reliance on RNG.

    Rankings & Analysis

    Here is what our rankings look like at the 75th percentile on mythic.

    Goroth: #1
    Demonic Inquisition: #2
    Harjatan: #3
    Mistress: #6
    Sisters: #4
    Desolate Host: #5
    Maiden: #3


    Fallen Avatar and Kiljaeden have too little parses to draw any conclusions from at this time.

    At the very least we are middle of the pack. In fact, if you compare us to other tanks...Druids: 6,4,2,3,5,1,4; Monks: 2,1,4,1,2,2,4; Warriors: 3,5,5,5,3,3,1; Paladins: 5,6,6,4,6,6,6; and finally Demon Hunters: 4,3,1,2,1,4,2. The results speak for themselves. Death Knights are the definition of middle of the pack and overally the tank-dps rankings aren't really close except in the Druid vs DK and Monk vs DH comparisons.

    The rankings are something like Monks>=Demon Hunters> Death Knights>= Druids> Warriors> Paladins

    You can even make excuses for DKs being slightly low for often being the 3rd tank on Desolate Host. Before you begin to suggest that certain fights are more important than others it needs to be heavily emphasized that the reason to bring a specific tank is almost never its dps: there are other reasons to bring a specific tank. Of course these results may change when Fallen Avatar and Kiljaeden are killed enough to be statistically significant but that is just speculation from all sides of the argument.

  2. #42
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    Yeah you don't even need externals as a blood DK on Mythic Maiden. If you VB and build a shield prior to the smash actually happening (so you have close to 30% extra health, from the trait), you can live with just VB/RT on Mythic (at least I could anyway). This was without spectral deflection and without SSG, I was using a stamina flask/food in addition to a stamina trinket (the one from host), but it didn't feel necessary.

    Ran with belt and class ring. I haven't tried without the belt because the scenario of back to back smashes could happen, and I noticed on heroic that there were times where VB wasn't up again (which the belt helps alleviate). It's nice not having to use AMS if you don't have to because if you're taking the holy smashes, you can AMS the bomb when it comes out. Bomb is still trivial though, so I'd still recommend alternating between AMS/IBF/Trinket/BM. BM I don't use simply because you only soak 5-6 smashes max on Mythic, and purgatory will absolutely save you from a fuck up, and there is virtually no DPS check on Mythic Maiden.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    Can solo soak Maiden's hammer too with VB/RT (and AMS, BM, and/or IBF if they're up). Haven't tried on M since I'm not on her yet, but works pretty good on N and H. Should have a VB/RT for every hammer soak and can rotate between IBF/AMS/BM.
    I know that one, but my problem with it is that you prety much risk an error for virtually nothing, since, if done properly, the damage taken is rather low. On nm, i can conceive it (and with BM, it's extra dps, for dem logz), but in hm it just feels like a lot of bother for nothing.

    EDIT : i'm full of shit, you can and have to solo soak them in mythic, my bad. ty @scHalrs. I still believe it's a useless bother in nm/hm tho
    Last edited by genbag; 2017-08-04 at 07:15 AM. Reason: bullshit was said

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by genbag View Post
    I know that one, but my problem with it is that you prety much risk an error for virtually nothing, since, if done properly, the damage taken is rather low. On nm, i can conceive it (and with BM, it's extra dps, for dem logz), but in hm it just feels like a lot of bother for nothing.
    On M, you can't solo-soak it, that i'm sure of .
    Its the Standard Strategy to solo soak the Hammers in mythic. Doing it in Heroic / Normal depends on Group size. I wouldnt solo soak Hammers with a 30man grp in heroic.

    EDIT:
    Solo soaking in heroic can help if ppl Play bad, for e.g. a lot of bombs on the side with the next Hammer. This can prevent random deaths if there arent enough ppl so split the damage. If played correctly there is really no need, you are right.
    Last edited by Schlars; 2017-08-04 at 07:26 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehr View Post
    Blooddrinker is used in 75% of Mythic Sisters of the Moon logs. Sisters of the Moon, Mythic, 95th percentile, all tanks, rated on damage:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...050&dataset=95
    BDK Talents, same data:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ntinfo=Talents


    Heartbreaker is a noob trap talent almost as much as Bloodworms are. Blooddrinker beats Heartbreaker even in constant 5-target cleave (which is impossible anyway since you can't have 100% uptime on DnD) in all metrics, as Tojara said.

    Let's look at the #1 Mythic Mistress Sassz'ine logs:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&type=summary

    In this fight, for perspective, Lynathel got rank 1 DPS and rank 2 Healing as a BDK, so the logs aren't skewed in favor of either DPS or Healing.

    If Lynathel had used Heartbreaker, he would have gained 286 additional RP from Heartbreaker, which equates to 8 extra Death Strikes, assuming he had Gravewarden and Ossuary up for every one. Eight additional Death Strikes would have been 8.18m additional damage, using his averages, whereas Blooddrinker did 25.90m damage. Now for healing, those 8 additional Death Strikes would have healed him for an additional 16.12m, whereas Blooddrinker healed him for 16.84m. So nearly equal healing from Blooddrinker and Heartbreaker, but over 3x the damage, and that's ignoring the fact that he only cast 11 Blooddrinkers in the fight out of a maximum of 16. If he had cast all 16, he would have dealt 37.67m damage and healed for 24.49m, which is 4.5x damage and 1.5x healing, respectively.

    There are the data. Heartbreaker isn't terrible if the player is not comfortable with Blooddrinker, by all means, but Blooddrinker is definitely the best talent to take.
    That's very interesting data, you did forgot the skullflower legendary shoulders or bracers in your calculations thought, so the actual numbers if you take that in account are higher, but taking in consideration your numbers and the legendary i would say their close, possibly favoring one or another depending on the needs of the fight.

    As for their being a greater use of, is not evidence per se that it is a good talent, you clearly demonstrated that it is an excellent talent dps wise talent, something that i already come to conclusion on previous log analysis.

    Has for healing, if it is effective, that was my original question, blooddrinker suffers from the same problem DS had before soul drinker came into play. And the logs look
    to favor DS for effective healing.

    I wish to remember i never said the talent is bad, i just disagree with the assessment that it's value is in the defensive, but more on the offensive, your numbers show that exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    Want some evidence?

    Let me start this off by saying there are many ways to interpret the statistics data that WCL provides. There are also many ways to make it appear that Blood's dps situation is worse than it actually is. Here is the methodology used

    Methodology

    The 75th Percentile generally gives the best picture in terms of overall performance. This number is around normal RNG with good play. Higher percentiles are dependent on some combination of near perfect play and good RNG. High parses are also more abusable by tanks who may be able to sacrifice survival through trinkets and legendaries for more dps oriented options. This is why simply looking at high percentiles is wrong.

    Its also worth noting that Blood has some the least amount of damage that is dependent on RNG (I think Monks have lower but I could be wrong). Blood has 2 real RNG elements, extra Bone Shield charges on Marrowrend through our Artifact tree, a very small increase when it procs, and Crimson Scourge procs which is something. These don't come close to the power of getting more frequent usage out of Mangle, Shield Slam, Avenger's Shield etc. I note this because high percentile parses typically have the best RNG. Other tank specs have higher potentials due to having more reliance on RNG.

    Rankings & Analysis

    Here is what our rankings look like at the 75th percentile on mythic.

    Goroth: #1
    Demonic Inquisition: #2
    Harjatan: #3
    Mistress: #6
    Sisters: #4
    Desolate Host: #5
    Maiden: #3


    Fallen Avatar and Kiljaeden have too little parses to draw any conclusions from at this time.

    At the very least we are middle of the pack. In fact, if you compare us to other tanks...Druids: 6,4,2,3,5,1,4; Monks: 2,1,4,1,2,2,4; Warriors: 3,5,5,5,3,3,1; Paladins: 5,6,6,4,6,6,6; and finally Demon Hunters: 4,3,1,2,1,4,2. The results speak for themselves. Death Knights are the definition of middle of the pack and overally the tank-dps rankings aren't really close except in the Druid vs DK and Monk vs DH comparisons.

    The rankings are something like Monks>=Demon Hunters> Death Knights>= Druids> Warriors> Paladins

    You can even make excuses for DKs being slightly low for often being the 3rd tank on Desolate Host. Before you begin to suggest that certain fights are more important than others it needs to be heavily emphasized that the reason to bring a specific tank is almost never its dps: there are other reasons to bring a specific tank. Of course these results may change when Fallen Avatar and Kiljaeden are killed enough to be statistically significant but that is just speculation from all sides of the argument.
    I think you misunderstood me, possibly i did not explain myself correctly, when i ask evidence when some one makes a argument like "we are tank gods" or "dps kings" i rather see some evidence attached, then simply throwing or even trying to disprove the person, if the person does not come with numbers, or good analysis, or the logs i do not feel he is adding anything to the conversation then simply air.
    Be mindful, anyone can say that the sky is falling, but until it hits, or your proven that, you have no reason to believe it.

    Has for the rankings, that does not prove much beyond the point we are being used, which is a lot better considering the last tier, kiljaden fight is a reflection of that, the fight is heavy movement and we lack mobility so we are not ideal for it, that will reflect on it's representation, the host and mistress are minion/mobility fights which is the point i made previously, besides stating what i already said and providing proof to what i am arguing that in specific circumstances mobility/minions by what the data is showing we unperformed, but what i like to focus and which i was saying is that in terms of DPS we seem to suffer when in tank because of competing resources so my surprise by spryte logs was that we in fact do more DPS outside tanking, or so to say have less performance during MT situations, that raises questions.

    But i agree with you, a tank is not there for the DPS, but he is a net contributor, it still matters, your utility matters, your mobility matters. But these only come to play when you have decent survival. It's important to take that into consideration because that's also something we are competing with other tanks, if survival is none issue, guilds choose based on those.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Faltharion View Post
    but what i like to focus and which i was saying is that in terms of DPS we seem to suffer when in tank because of competing resources so my surprise by spryte logs was that we in fact do more DPS outside tanking, or so to say have less performance during MT situations, that raises questions.
    Thats the nature of BDK damage, while offtanking we have 100% Bloodshield uptime, so all DS do 25% more damage (golden trait Unending Thirst). The competing ressources is a small part too. But isnt that true for most tanks? Im not too familiar with the playstyle of other tanks but a Guardian who is offtanking will probably dump his rage via Maul and not use Ironfur for e.g.?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehr View Post
    Blooddrinker is used in 75% of Mythic Sisters of the Moon logs. Sisters of the Moon, Mythic, 95th percentile, all tanks, rated on damage:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...050&dataset=95
    BDK Talents, same data:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ntinfo=Talents


    Heartbreaker is a noob trap talent almost as much as Bloodworms are. Blooddrinker beats Heartbreaker even in constant 5-target cleave (which is impossible anyway since you can't have 100% uptime on DnD) in all metrics, as Tojara said.

    Let's look at the #1 Mythic Mistress Sassz'ine logs:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&type=summary

    In this fight, for perspective, Lynathel got rank 1 DPS and rank 2 Healing as a BDK, so the logs aren't skewed in favor of either DPS or Healing.

    If Lynathel had used Heartbreaker, he would have gained 286 additional RP from Heartbreaker, which equates to 8 extra Death Strikes, assuming he had Gravewarden and Ossuary up for every one. Eight additional Death Strikes would have been 8.18m additional damage, using his averages, whereas Blooddrinker did 25.90m damage. Now for healing, those 8 additional Death Strikes would have healed him for an additional 16.12m, whereas Blooddrinker healed him for 16.84m. So nearly equal healing from Blooddrinker and Heartbreaker, but over 3x the damage, and that's ignoring the fact that he only cast 11 Blooddrinkers in the fight out of a maximum of 16. If he had cast all 16, he would have dealt 37.67m damage and healed for 24.49m, which is 4.5x damage and 1.5x healing, respectively.

    There are the data. Heartbreaker isn't terrible if the player is not comfortable with Blooddrinker, by all means, but Blooddrinker is definitely the best talent to take.
    Oh after checking your calculations i found some thing's i don't agree, by your logs we have 76 HS 11 BD, so 87 possible runes, we also know that from 76 HS we have 143 hits. That means that if we convert it to raw numbers (87*2 + 11*5 + 87*2) that is the true potential value of runic generated, decomposition: 87*2 value of talent, 11*5 HS has extra 5 when cast, 87*2 you gain extra 2 for each other enemy hit, i am ignoring DnD. That concludes with 403 runic total. So by your you own calculations and depending on legendary s, BD is a net loss in defensive value.

    There's also question about the 3 sec channel, around 2.3 at 30% haste, and inability to use DS during those moments.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Faltharion View Post
    Oh after checking your calculations i found some thing's i don't agree, by your logs we have 76 HS 11 BD, so 87 possible runes, we also know that from 76 HS we have 143 hits. That means that if we convert it to raw numbers (87*2 + 11*5 + 87*2) that is the true potential value of runic generated, decomposition: 87*2 value of talent, 11*5 HS has extra 5 when cast, 87*2 you gain extra 2 for each other enemy hit, i am ignoring DnD. That concludes with 403 runic total. So by your you own calculations and depending on legendary s, BD is a net loss in defensive value.

    There's also question about the 3 sec channel, around 2.3 at 30% haste, and inability to use DS during those moments.
    The logs show that assuming each HS hit 2 Targets is wrong, and thats with DnD. DND uptime on mistriss isnt pretty high.

    76 HS casts resulted in 143 hits. Thats 1,88 Targets hit per HS cast. If you assume instead of 11 BD cast we would have 11 more HS casts the net RP would be:

    = 87*2 + 11*5 + 0,88*2*87 = 382,12 RP

    ~11 more DS.

    In Terms of DPS Blooddrinker is still superior. Imho calculating the defensive value of Heartbreaker is very hard because it heavily depends on damage taken. Trox summed it up pretty well. the more Targets you have the closer the defensive value of Heartbreaker and Blooddrinker is.

    Taking avg. numbers from the log. Its ~4,83 (+ Bloodshield) more Healing via DS vs. 14,9 more Dmg from BD. (we are still not checking if vampiric Aura was active during BD resulting in more leech etc. etc.)

    But imho we should not start splitting hairs.

    Blooddrinker is the better Talent.
    Last edited by Schlars; 2017-08-04 at 10:08 AM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Schlars View Post
    The logs clearly Show that assuming each HS hit 2 Targets is wrong.

    76 HS casts resulted in 143 hits. Thats 1,88 Targets hit per HS cast. If you assume instead of 11 BD cast we would have 11 more HS casts the net RP would be:

    = 87*2 + 11*5 + 0,88*2*87 = 382,12 RP

    ~11 more DS.

    In Terms of DPS Blooddrinker is still superior. Imho calculating the defensive value of Heartbreaker is very hard because it heavily depends on damage taken. Trox summed it up pretty well. the more Targets you have the closer the defensive value of Heartbreaker and Blooddrinker is.

    Taking avg. numbers from the log. Its ~4,83 (+ Bloodshield) more Healing via DS vs. 14,9 more Dmg from BD. (we are still not checking if vampiric Aura was active during BD resulting in more leech etc. etc.)

    But imho we should not start splitting hairs.

    Blooddrinker is the better Talent.
    You also choose to also to ignore legendarys that increase value of DS, thats why i said potential runic value, also we went from 8 DS to 11, which were providing 0.5 less to a lot closer value like you said. So both talents are at a competitive level depending on situation. Also i don't think i am splitting hairs, this a very informative analysis from everyone, choose to ignore if you wish, but it's interesting, it gives options depending on the fight, after this analysis i myself am leaning more for BD on tyrannical weeks for mythical, and HB for fortified, but thats personal for me.

    Also i do agree, i have no info on other tanks, but just because it works for us this way, does not translate to the other classes, so i wouldn't make that argument.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Faltharion View Post
    You also choose to also to ignore legendarys that increase value of DS, thats why i said potential runic value, also we went from 8 DS to 11, which were providing 0.5 less to a lot closer value like you said. So both talents are at a competitive level depending on situation. Also i don't think i am splitting hairs, this a very informative analysis from everyone, choose to ignore if you wish, but it's interesting, it gives options depending on the fight, after this analysis i myself am leaning more for BD on tyrannical weeks for mythical, and HB for fortified, but thats personal for me.

    Also i do agree, i have no info on other tanks, but just because it works for us this way, does not translate to the other classes, so i wouldn't make that argument.
    The guy in the log is wearing the shoulders. By taking the avg. Dmg and Healing from DS in the log the shoulders are already involved. Bracers might push it even closer. Only Bracers are missing but for that we would Need another log because with more ds the avg. healing from DS might Change and so on.

    Heartbreaker benefits from the current t20 4p so its Overall closer as in the previous Tier i agree on that.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Schlars View Post
    The guy in the log is wearing the shoulders. By taking the avg. Dmg and Healing from DS in the log the shoulders are already involved. Bracers might push it even closer. Only Bracers are missing but for that we would Need another log because with more ds the avg. healing from DS might Change and so on.

    Heartbreaker benefits from the current t20 4p so its Overall closer as in the previous Tier i agree on that.
    Oh, my oversight, apologies, well the number's seem very close then on add's, and BD trumps on Single target. Makes sense to me, and it sets one has AoE Talent, and the other the Single Target one. And i would put the worms has the real noob trap :| lol. This is very interesting, all i need to understand is if during MT we are supposed to under perform compared to other classes or is intended.

  12. #52
    BDKs in general complained a lot about Unending Thirst iirc. Its nearly impossible to make use of the extra damage and extra leech while actively tanking challenging Content, the trait is just not thought out very well.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Schlars View Post
    BDKs in general complained a lot about Unending Thirst iirc. Its nearly impossible to make use of the extra damage and extra leech while actively tanking challenging Content, the trait is just not thought out very well.
    Yes i have a vague memory of it, but i dismissed at the time because we had bigger issues at the time if i recall.

  14. #54
    Stood in the Fire Tehr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlars View Post
    BDKs in general complained a lot about Unending Thirst iirc. Its nearly impossible to make use of the extra damage and extra leech while actively tanking challenging Content, the trait is just not thought out very well.
    I think it would be much better if it read "While Blood Shield is active, and for 3 seconds after it fades, you gain ...", which would allow you to alternate Death Strike and another ability every GCD (assuming more than 0% Haste) and still benefit from the Leech and DS Damage (although perhaps it would need a nerf down to 15% or 20%).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Schlars View Post
    <SNIP>

    Taking avg. numbers from the log. Its ~4,83 (+ Bloodshield) more Healing via DS vs. 14,9 more Dmg from BD. (we are still not checking if vampiric Aura was active during BD resulting in more leech etc. etc.)
    That's also not taking into account that he could have cast 5 more Blooddrinkers than he did, which would have further increased the healing of Blooddrinker by approximately 7.65m. Granted it would have also reduced the number of Heart Strikes, RP gained, and DS cast, but I suppose this doesn't really matter in the long run, as talent choice comes down to personal opinions on the talents moreso than math.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehr View Post
    I think it would be much better if it read "While Blood Shield is active, and for 3 seconds after it fades, you gain ...", which would allow you to alternate Death Strike and another ability every GCD (assuming more than 0% Haste) and still benefit from the Leech and DS Damage (although perhaps it would need a nerf down to 15% or 20%).

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's also not taking into account that he could have cast 5 more Blooddrinkers than he did, which would have further increased the healing of Blooddrinker by approximately 7.65m. Granted it would have also reduced the number of Heart Strikes, RP gained, and DS cast, but I suppose this doesn't really matter in the long run, as talent choice comes down to personal opinions on the talents moreso than math.
    Yeah you are right, i forgot those. On top of that 2 BD casts missed the 4th tick. Overall this should put Blooddrinker easly ahead in both DPS and survival as you already mentioned earlier. And thats a fight with lots of adds.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Schlars View Post
    Yeah you are right, i forgot those. On top of that 2 BD casts missed the 4th tick. Overall this should put Blooddrinker easly ahead in both DPS and survival as you already mentioned earlier. And thats a fight with lots of adds.
    By the amount of targets hit also reveal he is not effectively cleaving all adds at the same so it is a net loss too.

  17. #57
    Just did a little more than 800k with a 910+ bdk, but it was in LFR so yeah... Take it for what it's worth. I'm pretty happy with the current DPS tbh (could've done better if I had the shoulders though) especially considering I didn't use prepot.

  18. #58
    Stood in the Fire Tehr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faltharion View Post
    By the amount of targets hit also reveal he is not effectively cleaving all adds at the same so it is a net loss too.
    There are plenty of times in the fight when there are no adds to cleave (especially P2 when DPS blow them up), or when eels will teleport away from you, or when you have to immediately move out of DnD, or when you want to avoid cleaving altogether (our #1 problem with progression on Mythic Mistress is killing eels too quickly and not having puddles for tornados, even after the hotfix), etc. The amount of cleave he got was pretty ridiculous, considering that even when he wasn't able to cleave at all he still averaged 1.88 targets hit per Heart Strike. That's pretty damn efficient. By comparison, the top Desolate Host (the boss with the next highest amount of AoE after Mistress) parse got an average of 2 targets hit per Heart Strike, and the top Heroic Mistress parse got an average of 1.92 targets hit per Heart Strike, so we can see that 1.88 is still a very decent number. Even if it's not as effective as he could have gotten, it's a lot more efficient than his usage of Blooddrinker, and Blooddrinker is almost equal on healing as it is.
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehr View Post
    There are plenty of times in the fight when there are no adds to cleave (especially P2 when DPS blow them up), or when eels will teleport away from you, or when you have to immediately move out of DnD, or when you want to avoid cleaving altogether (our #1 problem with progression on Mythic Mistress is killing eels too quickly and not having puddles for tornados, even after the hotfix), etc. The amount of cleave he got was pretty ridiculous, considering that even when he wasn't able to cleave at all he still averaged 1.88 targets hit per Heart Strike. That's pretty damn efficient. By comparison, the top Desolate Host (the boss with the next highest amount of AoE after Mistress) parse got an average of 2 targets hit per Heart Strike, and the top Heroic Mistress parse got an average of 1.92 targets hit per Heart Strike, so we can see that 1.88 is still a very decent number. Even if it's not as effective as he could have gotten, it's a lot more efficient than his usage of Blooddrinker, and Blooddrinker is almost equal on healing as it is.
    I stand corrected, looking at that point of view, it does feel that way. The biggest issue is the mobility in the face all the mechanics that go around the fight and not having DnD positioning. But that is well known for DK.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Faltharion View Post
    You know whats funny when i look at your logs? Your basicly ~50% less damage when tanking, according to your damage intake... And you jump those 50% when back to OT.

    You want to know something funny too? DS is your hightest net contributor, and blooddrinker which is not common to take, possibly only that fight, netted you 11% of your damage. If we compound the fact of less need for morrowrending wich mean a couple more runes per minute it makes sense.

    What i take? Bloodrinker is a good DPS talent, and while OT and not worrying when to DS we can dps. Does it corroborate your statement.. no it does not, i believe it reinforces what i some people say.
    Lol Bloodrinker not a common talent??? Why would you ever take anything else? Bloodrinker is better in AoE and ST fights: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ght&spec=Blood click on any one and you will see that blooddrinker is taken in about 90% of scenarios. I would argue that any fight outside of fallen avatar that anyone taking a different talent is probably making a mistake. The only reason it MIGHT be worthwhile on avatar is for extra RP for more DS because of how hard avatar and maiden hit.
    Last edited by VarianceWoW; 2017-08-05 at 01:22 PM.

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