1. #1

    Minimum Legos to play fire?

    is there a minimum lego that I need to play fire on fights where it may beat out frost (looking at you Avatar)


    Right now I have the wrists and helm for frost...but only Pyraz and gloves for fire and my sims show my frost ahead by a country mile.


    So is there one or two legos that area "must" to actively play fire?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    is there a minimum lego that I need to play fire on fights where it may beat out frost (looking at you Avatar)


    Right now I have the wrists and helm for frost...but only Pyraz and gloves for fire and my sims show my frost ahead by a country mile.


    So is there one or two legos that area "must" to actively play fire?
    The answer is always going to be the bracers. Since the start of the expansion the answer has always been bracers. It likely will continue to be the answer unless something with the T21 set bonuses makes the gloves/belt combo better.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Yeah you want those bracers. Your second leggo can be a couple of them depending on fight and your gear. But without bracers gonna be hard to do decent. Also if bracers dont proc during combustion its hard to do good dps.

  5. #5
    For avatar the belt is REALLY nice. Being able to cast scorch while dodging tornados keeps your DPS up which is a major reason why fire performs so well on that fight.

  6. #6
    Frost is going to out sim fire almost every time even if you have the best fire legendaries and nothing for frost. The reason fire is better on some fights is the time off target or movement in ToS is harder on frost then fire. To add another twist in most cases frost is the better spec on the more aoe focused fights in ToS due to the amount of adds and how long they last.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  7. #7
    I'd say you need bracers and belt to perform good as fire

  8. #8
    Read the title and just came to say, "Don't play with fire kid or you'll get burned!"... HA... ok, I'll see myself out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  9. #9
    Bracers are super RNG. You can get the hero ring and belt and probably sim closely to bracers and pull up your low parses a lot, but to get the really high spike parses as fire you need bracers and luck. I think gloves will be good next patch w/ t21.

    tldr; you can use hero ring instead of bracers and do ok. Minimum for fire aoe/st imho: Belt, Helm, Hero Ring or Bracers.

  10. #10
    And of course...I have none of those.


    Wheeeee!

    At least I can eat the Dark Ally and/or Touch pools solo as Frost...that's kid of like giving others a dps increase :0

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    And of course...I have none of those.


    Wheeeee!

    At least I can eat the Dark Ally and/or Touch pools solo as Frost...that's kid of like giving others a dps increase :0
    The bracers will help you not to be scrubbing the floors. They won't put you ahead of Frost or many other dps specs.
    VICTORY!!!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Holovik View Post
    For avatar the belt is REALLY nice. Being able to cast scorch while dodging tornados keeps your DPS up which is a major reason why fire performs so well on that fight.
    Fire does well on the fight because ignite hits both targets whereas SI doesn't hit both targets ontop of glacial eruption not being able to hit avatar at all. As a reminder, always ebonbolt maiden.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Frost is going to out sim fire almost every time even if you have the best fire legendaries and nothing for frost. The reason fire is better on some fights is the time off target or movement in ToS is harder on frost then fire. To add another twist in most cases frost is the better spec on the more aoe focused fights in ToS due to the amount of adds and how long they last.
    You must not raid very often.
    Even In mythic fights with adds the adds die instantly giving you maybe 14-15 ticks of blizzard and that's not counting if something gets pulled out of frost orb/blizzard while fire just giggles and spreads ignite.

  13. #13
    Interesting...


    So if our issue is too much damage on Maiden not enough on Avatar...perhaps going Fire, cause I thought Fire had the advantage there, isn't the best idea.

    We have a lot of splash classes (2 warlocks, 2 warriors, 1 UH dk, and a stupid amount of druids <various>)

    Maybe I'll just cope with lesser dps...but focused dps.


    That tip about the Eruption not hitting Avatar is curious though. I'm guessing that's just in phase one, right?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    The bracers will help you not to be scrubbing the floors. They won't put you ahead of Frost or many other dps specs.
    That's why you should have an offspec of frost is you want to play fire.

    Personally, if I only played frost I'd quit this son of a bitch, so I think I'd definitely recommend an offspec of fire to frost mages who have maxed out their legos.

    Fire has more passive survivability, outsims frost on some bosses, it has performed above expectations in mythic raids this tier, and deals with non-relevant content much easier than frost, once you get the db helm. Primarily, I feel non-relevant content like invasions, daily heroic, world quests, lfr, low mythic+, normals, and especially timewalking are made far, far more acceptable with the DB helm and lb or flamepatch. With frost, I find that my burst isn't instant and the cooldowns on my abilities are too far apart to make short work of multiple small add packs spaced say, 15-25 seconds apart(the majority of the actual game). QoL goes up immensely with a 1 shot button on these, and RoP db with the helm is a motherfucker.

    You won't lose dps, because fire has flat stats and so does ice really, besides crit over cap and mastery being shit.
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2017-08-04 at 08:00 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenfoldor View Post
    That's why you should have an offspec of frost is you want to play fire.

    Personally, if I only played frost I'd quit this son of a bitch, so I think I'd definitely recommend an offspec of fire to frost mages who have maxed out their legos.

    Fire has more passive survivability, outsims frost on some bosses, it has performed above expectations in mythic raids this tier, and deals with non-relevant content much easier than frost, once you get the db helm. Primarily, I feel non-relevant content like invasions, daily heroic, world quests, lfr, low mythic+, normals, and especially timewalking are made far, far more acceptable with the DB helm and lb or flamepatch. With frost, I find that my burst isn't instant and the cooldowns on my abilities are too far apart to make short work of multiple small add packs spaced say, 15-25 seconds apart(the majority of the actual game). QoL goes up immensely with a 1 shot button on these, and RoP db with the helm is a motherfucker.

    You won't lose dps, because fire has flat stats and so does ice really, besides crit over cap and mastery being shit.
    Absolutely. I think that a Mage, whose only role is dps, should know and maintain all their specs. I actually have Fire offspec and the DB helm too, the instants are a bliss in the non-relevant content as you call it.

    I also keep my Arcane weapon upgraded as the spec burst potential and cosmic high aoe are insane in low/mid m+ or running through quests spamming Arcane Explosion - far not as fun as Fire though. I got the kilt and helm there so I can swap around to eliminate the mana problem (the two at the same time are an overkill). Both Fire and Arcane can't compare to the sustained Frost performance on 1 and especially on 2 targets - which is often the case on high level m+ and most raid bosses.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that Blizzard may do class tuning which could change the balance of our specs with a certain margin, it happens at least a couple of times per expansion. It's a good idea to not forget your other specs, also because they have niches. Especially when your main weapon traits go 56+, it makes a lot of sense to upgrade the other weapons than spend billions (many days) for a minimal upgrade.
    VICTORY!!!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    Absolutely. I think that a Mage, whose only role is dps, should know and maintain all their specs. I actually have Fire offspec and the DB helm too, the instants are a bliss in the non-relevant content as you call it.

    I also keep my Arcane weapon upgraded as the spec burst potential and cosmic high aoe are insane in low/mid m+ or running through quests spamming Arcane Explosion - far not as fun as Fire though. I got the kilt and helm there so I can swap around to eliminate the mana problem (the two at the same time are an overkill). Both Fire and Arcane can't compare to the sustained Frost performance on 1 and especially on 2 targets - which is often the case on high level m+ and most raid bosses.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that Blizzard may do class tuning which could change the balance of our specs with a certain margin, it happens at least a couple of times per expansion. It's a good idea to not forget your other specs, also because they have niches. Especially when your main weapon traits go 56+, it makes a lot of sense to upgrade the other weapons than spend billions (many days) for a minimal upgrade.
    I had to post on this....yeah if I was a mythic raider i'd be expected to do that....but i'm not....I raid normal/heroic that's it lol....the thing is, I much prefer fire over the other specs....I used to LOVE frost back in WOD, that's all I played up until the very end when I switched to fire....I hate the way frost plays now (believe me I tried for weeks to like it) and always hated arcane since BC....I have kept up with my frost weapon and have all the best legos though just in case....arcane no but maybe i'll loot spec and get the leggos for it lol....

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Holovik View Post
    For avatar the belt is REALLY nice. Being able to cast scorch while dodging tornados keeps your DPS up which is a major reason why fire performs so well on that fight.
    Lolwat. You do know there are safe spots for tornadoes right? Fire is good because passive cleave and the execute dmg with belt.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Lolwat. You do know there are safe spots for tornadoes right? Fire is good because passive cleave and the execute dmg with belt.
    So you're implying that having the ability to fully move while casting adds no benefit in p2? Good to know...

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    is there a minimum lego that I need to play fire on fights where it may beat out frost (looking at you Avatar)


    Right now I have the wrists and helm for frost...but only Pyraz and gloves for fire and my sims show my frost ahead by a country mile.


    So is there one or two legos that area "must" to actively play fire?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by provaporous View Post
    Epic. /10char

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