Ele shaman buffs

[Kralljin]

what like astral shift only works on AoE affects but now has a 5 second cooldown? balanced ability if you're a rogue lmao.

One would assume that having such a powerful tool would be balanced by downsides, but the design philosophy of strengths and weaknesses is a one way street at Blizzard apparently, some classes have to deal with it, others are above the law.

[Deleted]

Some would think that out of 190 guilds who're currently progressing mythic Avatar no one brings an Elemental is a very bad sign for the class balance team. There are zero progressing Elemental Shaman beyond mythic 7/9.

[Socialhealer]

Some would think that out of 190 guilds who're currently progressing mythic Avatar no one brings an Elemental is a very bad sign for the class balance team. There are zero progressing Elemental Shaman beyond mythic 7/9.

and it will continue at KJ i've seen methods kill i cannot imagine moving that much and doing any reasonable level of dps, and being such a burden on the healers due to high overall damage taken and virtually no self regen, spamming healing surge just makes elementals awful damage even worse.

[Bugg]

What casters perform well in high movement encounters and have recently, like you said?

[Deleted]

What casters perform well in high movement encounters and have recently, like you said?

It is irrelevant how casters stack up compared to melee in fights like Maiden - or any other - because they are not competing with them for raid spots.

What you should be asking is how many ranged specs outperform elemental in high movement ST scenarios.
Here is your answer:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...052&dataset=99
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...050&dataset=99
I'd love to link Avatar and KJ, but guess what...

[Bugg]

Well it's 150k to 300k dps difference, with a varying number of parses.
100-200k out of 1500k, the balance is pretty good...

[Deleted]

That is a pretty ignorant thing to utter, considering that every single out those specs provides either a very useful raid utility, or is capable of solo soaking.
Add those two factors and as a raid leader of a mythic progression guild, the choice between elemental and frost/balance/affli/bm/mm/shadow becomes obvious.

[Bugg]

So following that logic, since ele provides no utility for mythic raids, it should compensate with higher DPS?
Sounds fair I guess.

[korlach]

Add those two factors and as a raid leader of a mythic progression guild, the choice between elemental and frost/balance/affli/bm/mm/shadow becomes obvious.

While I agree ele has some problems, and could use some utility, the problem is what you just said. "Mythic progression guild". Most guilds are not mythic guilds. My guild for example usually will clear up to 3-5 bosses on mythic by the end of a tier and we usually don't have many choices for sitting people. Its hard enough to recruit and keep up a roster with enough players to raid every week, at least on my server. I'm sure more progressed guilds find it a little easier to recruit and have some choices as to who they bring to raid, but most likely raid leaders are going to choose the people showing up, doing mechanics right, and helping the raid in some way. If you have more than 20 that fall in that category, sure you will start looking for who to sit. But that is not a problem the majority of guilds face and that's why blizz is ok letting some specs suffer. There are certainly worse specs for every class that get ignored but it hurts us more being the only ranged spec option for our class. If you want to secure your spot, be willing to heal when needed. Help your raid with professions. Or prepare to reroll.

Side note: Some of us have been on here long enough to get educated on game design, apply for a job at blizz and work your way up to class design and give ele shammy a strong voice. Someone get on that shit.

[Deleted]

Personally after reading all the developer comments regarding elemental, considering all the ridiculous changes we've been getting and looking at all the back tracking in regards to those, I am more than convinced that nobody at Blizzard has any clue on how this spec performs at the high end.

When you see someone who doesn't understand the problems that are obvious to you, it is only natural for you to want to educate that person. I think that is precisely what all of us should be doing - providing as much feedback as possible.

Sure, we can all just give up and re-roll, or switch to resto, but that is just a temporary fix, since tomorrow the spec/class you switch to can be gutted due to the same level of incompetence that forced your hand in the first place.

[Riistov]

Sure, we can all just give up and re-roll, or switch to resto, but that is just a temporary fix, since tomorrow the spec/class you switch to can be gutted due to the same level of incompetence that forced your hand in the first place.

Yup, I've had this happen when I swapped to Fire Mage during EN progress.

- - - Updated - - -

Some would think that out of 190 guilds who're currently progressing mythic Avatar no one brings an Elemental is a very bad sign for the class balance team. There are zero progressing Elemental Shaman beyond mythic 7/9.

Agreed, You would think that would be a wake up call for blizz.

I am stuck with Ele due to the fact I play Resto on fights where we need an extra healer, but I don't begrudge anyone who is switching specs/classes this tier.

[Kralljin]

but I don't begrudge anyone who is switching specs/classes this tier.

Why stop there? Race change! For Progress!

It's sad because it's true.

[Deleted]

As a side note to this discussion, I want everyone who thinks elemental is fine to do one simple thing.
Try to join a semi decent guild for ToS mythic progression as an elemental shaman.
Only then will you understand that whatever is being used at the top end trickles down to mid end and dismissing concerns put down in this topic with a simple 'as long as you are not top 10 world it doesn't matter', is a very short-sighted and uninformed statement.

Facts of the matter are that if you are serious about ToS progression, you'll be looking at classes that provide either exceptional, consistent damage output on fights you need them to, or bring utility/soaking that you require. Elemental provides neither of those and as a result, NOBODY with any clue is looking to recruit one.

In summary if you want to progress mythic ToS at a decent pace, at this moment in time, in this raid tier, you are FORCED to switch. The only exception is if you're a long time member of a well established guild, that will overlook the shortcomings that bringing you to the raid entail, due to your commitment (higher end guilds will simply ask you to switch to an alt).
As far as I'm concerned, the above is the DEFINITION of failed class design and it should be argued, not ignored.

[korlach]

As a side note to this discussion, I want everyone who thinks elemental is fine to do one simple thing.

I don't know that anyone thinks ele is fine. It would be nice to have a soak or some other utility that would add value to our spec. Hell even AG when it was decent would be enough for some fights. We definitely need some love for our sustained ST damage but it is better than it was in EN and looks to be somewhat better with the buffs coming. Is it enough? Probably not, but I think it should close the gap a bit.

That in mind lets not pretend ele has no strengths. We are strong in M+ and with less mechanics in normal and heroic we don't suffer from loss of movement as much. And no matter how bad ele is you should still be able to bring an OS healer which always has value to any guild that doesn't have perfect attendance.

[Deleted]

I know it isn't priest thread but doesn't shadow technically have worse situation due to required uptime in voidform where you want zero movement?

[ChrisKoe]

I know it isn't priest thread but doesn't shadow technically have worse situation due to required uptime in voidform where you want zero movement?

SPriest suffers form movement, yes. It has really strong execute damage and a decent - strong soaking ability though.

[Deleted]

That in mind lets not pretend ele has no strengths. We are strong in M+ and with less mechanics in normal and heroic we don't suffer from loss of movement as much. And no matter how bad ele is you should still be able to bring an OS healer which always has value to any guild that doesn't have perfect attendance.

That is the issue in most situations: perception. Elemental is useless shit in mythic raids currently, and lower mid-pack in mythic+ after haste scaling removal. And saying that we're really strong in normal mode raids or that we can spec into heal anytime isnt actually helpful either.

I know it isn't priest thread but doesn't shadow technically have worse situation due to required uptime in voidform where you want zero movement?

While Spriests may have all of the problems you've mentioned, they still got 1000% more dev attention and are genereally a useful part of a mythic raid team due to reasons mentioned above. They also only take half the damage an Elementa does... passivily.

[Deleted]

I don't know that anyone thinks ele is fine. It would be nice to have a soak or some other utility that would add value to our spec. Hell even AG when it was decent would be enough for some fights. We definitely need some love for our sustained ST damage but it is better than it was in EN and looks to be somewhat better with the buffs coming. Is it enough? Probably not, but I think it should close the gap a bit.

That in mind lets not pretend ele has no strengths. We are strong in M+ and with less mechanics in normal and heroic we don't suffer from loss of movement as much. And no matter how bad ele is you should still be able to bring an OS healer which always has value to any guild that doesn't have perfect attendance.

Yeah.. the M+ Invitational is loaded with eles...right? XDDDDD
Everything Elemental can do, other classes can do better and bring more function.

You play Elemenal now cos you enjoy it, like me. Mage is also a caster, and is way stronger, but I just feel its clunky compared to Elemental, others feel that Elemental is clunky, matter of preference.

For example, I quit Arms a few expansions ago cos its always a bit meh and not so good, its clunky for me and I didnt like its playstyle. Its now OP beyond belief, but I still cba playing it cos I've gotten too far away from it as a player. Again preference.

Preference I don't care about, they differ. But dont claim that Ele is great in M+ when other classes do everything Ele can do, but better.

[korlach]

Everything Elemental can do, other classes can do better and bring more function.

Preference I don't care about, they differ. But dont claim that Ele is great in M+ when other classes do everything Ele can do, but better.

Lol I said ele was strong, which is not wrong. No other class has lust along with an aoe stun along with earthquake (which even with nerfs still is amazing) and not to mention a short interrupt and great aoe. You can accomplish these things with a combination of classes but not 1.

[Kralljin]

No other class has lust along with an aoe stun along with earthquake (which even with nerfs still is amazing)

An actual Damage spell that is not a dps increase until 7+ Targets is not to be taken serious, if it were like a fringe spell similiar to the old Magma Totem, yeah sure but not an actual Spender.

Honestly, the current AoE Rotation on any AoE Situation in Tomb / Nighthold / EM is: CL, rinse & repeat*

*Place an Earthquake every 30 seconds if you wear Sephuz and can trigger it, don't use Earthquake while Sephuz is active.

You can accomplish these things with a combination of classes but not 1.

Problem is that the usual group consists of a combination of classes, which cover most of these things.

For example, take a BM Hunter, you got an AoE Stun and Bloodlust covered, along with passable AoE, an immunity and 100% free mobility.


Not everything is shit about Elemental, but don't try to sell this spec as somehow "secretly awesome".