My miserable life as a PUG raider

[Zvezdichko]

This is the thread I posted on blizz forums, here it is here. I wonder if anyone has the same beautiful experience like me:

Ah, Wednesday! The day raid tiers reset! Today there’s something I’m looking forward to and there’s something I’m not looking forward to. I’m looking forward to clearing some bosses, obtaining some gear and having some fun.
What I’m not looking to is dealing with selfish, ego-driven, megalomaniacal people who think the Earth revolves around them.
Here’s my story from today. It’s going to be long, but I (hope) worth the read.
10:30 AM. I realize I woke up too late to do some forgotten LFR wings before the reset, and Arathi Blizzard is gone too. Bummer. But then I’m taking a break from real-life work, so I guess deserved to sleep so late. I do the world quests and suddenly a thought arises in my empty head: I want to raid!
I have a choice: do the LFR wings, or do Normal. My guild is newly-founded, so I don’t have a raid team, so I’m pretty limited to these two options. I don’t know why I decided with option 2…
I open the PUG window and look at ToS groups. That one has a requirement of ilevel925 to do normal? Screw it. The other one is more normal-looking, but want a link achiev. Sorry. Not done yet. Another one is a spam group, clearing the raid for money. Not my type, I don’t have money and I don’t want to risk getting banned.
At long last I find a group I could join: “ToS Normal, please help me clear the raid”. The group was like a miracle – 2 tanks, 3 healers, and full of DPS. The raid leader was looking for a healer. OK, I could help, and judging from the advertisement, this is a leader who never did ToS. I am very much aware what it could mean by joining this group: we were about to clear only the first boss and we were either to fail the second boss, or if we don’t, clear only the Naga bosses after that. I know what to expect, I’m a realist.
It’s much worse than that – turns out the leader doesn’t know how to give assist to tanks, doesn’t know how to do raid warning. I lower my expectations even more. I thought we could easily defeat Goroth, but the Inquisition success would depend on the overall experience of the all players.
What happens next is the WORST thing that can happen to a newbie leader EVER… Goroth is a charm. We all survive… except for the raid leader, who dies alone. But the Inquisition is even worse. The raid starts fine, and the bosses gradually decrease their health. Everything works fine until 3-4%, we healers dispel all buffs… and then we wipe… Just before killing the Inquisition, we wipe. Everybody starts name-calling the bad raid leader, and the group disbands quickly. I feel sorry for the poor guy. I just hope he doesn’t get a bad depression and won’t give up on the game because of this horrible first-time experience in raiding.
Now it’s me who decides to lead another gorup. I know I’m more experienced and even though I don’t have Kil’Jaeden achiev, I know the first 5 bosses very well and can coordinate tactics. Now I just need to find more healers… and tanks…
It’s already high noon in my country and I prepare for a long wait. And it WAS a long wait – 1.5 hours! I’m patient, am I not?! At long last 2 tanks join… and meanwhile another healer joins, then leaves, then someone else joins and leaves… Half an hour passes, then the group at long last has 2 tanks and 3 healers…
We summon at stone, then one of the healers say:
-What the hell did I join? Half of the people haven’t cleared Kil’Jaeden at all?
-Well, all of the PUG groups have link achiev requirements. If they’re not giving the chance to new raiders, there won’t be more people who come, you get it?
The angry and entitled healer leaves, then we all complain how bad and entitled people have become. Another 20 minutes wait, then another healer joins. We go to the Demonic Inquisition and … guess what? The tanks have never done it before!
Mercifully, the boss is defeated… but I got some angry whispers that tanks didn’t follow the tacs properly. Meanwhile I’m calm – we defeated a hard boss, and the next two naga bosses are quite easy. There’s no way we could wipe on the first naga boss.
Boy how wrong I am!!! Not only we wipe, then another /leave wave and somebody responds:
-Now if you’re a good raid leader, you’ll kick those tanks for failing.
Then I reply:
-If that’s the will of the group, I’ll do it. But you know it’s high noon and we will have to wait another hour for tanks.
-I’d rather wait a whole hour rather than fail all the time.
-And I’d rather play with nice people willing to learn, rather than entitled and rude kids.
And the tanks DO learn! Not only we defeat the next two bosses, but then we reach the Sisters. Even with those successes, a wave of leavers is guaranteed. Another 45 minutes waiting for more healers, and some spare DPS.
The Sisters are defeated relatively easy, with only one wipe. All tanks, healers and DPS learned tactics very well. The boss is over, several people announce they have a burnout and are leaving the raid.
So far the raid is a whole success for me: Goroth dropped a level900 cape which replaced my older 885 cape, the Sisters dropped level900 ring to replace my old one, AND I get a legendary! It’s a rare luck for a raid, and I’m happy, but not everyone feels so. To sum up:
I start at 10.30.
20 minutes until we gather and kill Goroth, + another 10-15 minutes to fail at Inquisition.
At 11:10 I open the group for queue, I wait 1.5 hours for full group to assemble (longest wait ever), we start at 12:40. 20 minutes at Inquisition, then 15 minutes fail attempt at Har’Jatan, then 15 minutes until success, about 20 more minutes to clear trash and kill Mistress Sassz'ine.
It’s 14:00 o’clock when we start looking for more healers and DPS. About 45 minutes of waiting until all spots are full (minus realm hoppers and more bored leavers in the meantime). With one wipe, it’s about 15:20 when the Sisters are defeated.
By the way I’m starting to experience a serious burnout. I remember I started raiding at 10:30 and I’ve spent about 5 hours, of which most have been wasted time. But we’ve come too far. Now it’s time to start Desolate Host.
Guess what happens? More leavers after Sisters. I should get accustomed – if we defeat a boss, there shouldn’t be leavers. But there ARE! Of course, I don’t expect a commitment like those Method raiders… but why should people always leave after a boss fight?
Desolate Host. We have 3 healers, 2 tanks, and a couple of DPS. I go spirit phase with another healing buddy, a third healer does normal. We try doing the boss, but when the Desolate Host finally spawns, we wipe. Looks like the lone healer has failed the tank there in the normal mode. Okay, we have to find a spare healer for normal phase. Meanwhile, more leavers. Luckily none of them are tanks and healers.
We wait… We wait… 15 minutes later, a healer joins. I’m happy. We summon at stones, then the healer asks:
-Why four healers?
-Because this is what we’ve decided as a group, to have 2 healers per phase.
He leaves. AGAIN! Another entitled kid, who thinks the world revolves around him! OK, we may be wrong at tactics (we could really be!). And the tanks are learning. But when you join a group, you should listen more to the leader, or at least say your opinion.
We wait. 15 more minutes we decide that we’re going to give it a try with 3 healers. Longest player in the group are losing will to play. It’s really the last try for today. I pass the leadership to another guy, I’m so sick of being a raid leader.
We try again.
We fail.
And it’s a relief. I’ve never felt more relief to wrap the raid for today and continue some other time. Meanwhile I see what’s the problem with the WoW community and why the game is so horrible these days.
It’s because of the people.
No worry, I tell myself. I’ll kill Kil’Jaeden. Eventually. Next week. Next week we’ll all kill Kil’Jaeden, because LFR is out and we’ll have that cool Argus moon into the sky.
But there’s one question that invades my empty head now…
When we EVENTUALLY kill Kil’Jaeden, how will ego-driven and entitled people form their PUGs without the /w Achiev requirement?

[MechaCThun]

[Justpassing]

The wall is real.

[Madone]

What I’m not looking to is dealing with selfish, ego-driven, megalomaniacal people who think the Earth revolves around them.

...you're kidding, right?

You selfishly expect people to stick around for hours through your group wiping, you egotistically think you can lead a raid despite not having done so (or even killed all the bosses!) before, and your wall of text is a megalomaniacal cry for attention. But it's the rest of the community that is selfish, egotistical, and megalomaniacal, not you, right?

[Zvezdichko]

...you're kidding, right?

You selfishly expect people to stick around for hours through your group wiping, you egotistically think you can lead a raid despite not having done so (or even killed all the bosses!) before, and your wall of text is a megalomaniacal cry for attention. But it's the rest of the community that is selfish, egotistical, and megalomaniacal, not you, right?

I expect people to have some commitment to doing to raid. One or two wipes is not a sufficient reason to leave. Period. Of course I'm not expecting a Methold-like commitment with over 600 wipes. Plus I said, we wiped one or two times per boss... The rest of the 6-hour waiting time is due to people who're too sensitive to survive a single wipe.

[Kazuchika]

If you seriously expect anyone to read that giant wall of inane ramblings you're sadly mistaken.

[Clovedoper]

most people with commitment for raiding are doing it with their guild, and they already wiped on those bosses lot of times when they were progressing on those bosses, so now they only looking for a quick run (thats why they looking for a high ilvl group/with achiev group) for their alt or maybe their main for chance with legendary, you cant really blame them for leaving when the group is wiping on normal (let alone staying for 6 hour waiting when they can find another group that doing it faster and no wipes)

[gushDH]

Just join a guild that raids once a week. You must have enough time for this.

[Deleted]

most people with commitment for raiding are doing it with their guild, and they already wiped on those bosses lot of times when they were progressing on those bosses, so now they only looking for a quick run (thats why they looking for a high ilvl group/with achiev group) for their alt or maybe their main for chance with legendary, you cant really blame them for leaving when the group is wiping on normal (let alone staying for 6 hour waiting when they can find another group that doing it faster and no wipes)

this. 10char

[Spotnick]

It's a hard concept for many people that people are usually not interested to do progression again, hence why they try to get people that overgears the content or people who have done it before..

Especially after reset, when heroic/mythic raiders do normal for very light chance of Titanforged gear and legendary drops and just want to do it quick.

Only reason I'd stay in such a group would be to help a friend, but for random strangers.. why would I care? I don't NEED it.. I just want it done fast.

Stop running with different people every week and your quality of life will improve exponentially.

[Sithalos]

My miserable life on WoW forums.. I feel for anyone who actually read that giant slab.

I'll be sure to read it outloud in boogie2988's voice to my friends later.

[BiggestNoob]

I can't wait for people to pug mythic Sassz'ine and Maiden. Hell, even people coming back next expansion for mog off of Maiden, lmao. Good luck.

[Khallid]

Yeah, low-end pugging is pretty miserable, high-end pugging is elitist.

Proper raiding only happens in guilds, so the best advice to enjoying the game is to spend those 5 hours looking for a guild, instead of looking for pugs. You don't need to join a particularly awesome guild either, just one that has enough consistent players to raid.

[Deleted]

couldn't have found a better fitting image. perfect.

[Deleted]

5 Hours to reach normal desolate host, holy. I would tear out me hair in frustration too. A normal clear shouldnt take morr then 2 hours max.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Love this really worthwhile read, would be nice to slim it down a little or make it easier to read.

[Deleted]

The PUG kung fu is something you learn from experience...you're just skimming the surface here...but if you persevere all this will make sense..

[Marrilaife]

As much as I sympathize with miserable life of pug dwellers and I know the pain of taking hours of no, not wiping, waiting to replace leavers basically, it's 20% wiping 80% replacing leavers and waiting for new people to show up and get in, I agree with the general sentiment:

Paragraphs, OP.

Please use them.

[Deleted]

5-6 hours to clear half of the raid.
THIS is why people ask for achievement and high item level.
Because when you don't, you have people who don't know tactics at all. Like your tanks.

You made a learning/progress raid and got exactly what you asked for. Wipes with people who learn the tactics in your raid.
And then you have people who cleared everything 10 times and don't want to start progress from zero. They only play with high item level people who have achievement and clear in 1.5 hour. Why do you blame them? They have no obligation to carry you in their raid.

[Cheze]

I don't understand how you can possibly have time to sit in a raid for five continuous hours on a random wednesday, but not enough to join a guild that raids heroic casually.