1. #1

    Question How to prot paladin?

    First of all I wanted to say that I'm a knowledgeable tank since pretty much forever, except may be vanilla where I played druid and druid=heal at that time. Right now I have brewmaster at 932, bear druid and prot warrior both at around ~920.

    So my question is how do one tank with prot paladin? Just recently started playing it and god damn this whole class feels clunky. Million 1hour+ cooldowns management is intense, your main "not-so-active" mitigation is either op in 10% of situations or almost useless in the rest 90%. Low hp leaves you no room for even half the mistake and your dps is not THAT great with all the tradeoffs.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the challenge, but I think I'm missing something very important here or just doing everything wrong. But compared to other tanks (except DH, never had any experience in tanking DH) everything feels... misplaced?

  2. #2
    The rotation (almost) always gives you something to press which isn't just a generator like DH. It's what used to be called a cooldown based rotation and once you get the rhythm for it it's pretty fun, subjectively ofcourse.

    Prot paladin's main rotation is intended to be easy but with enough to keep you entertained. The only reason you feel no room for mistake is due to the high tank damage in Tomb / possible undergearing. This looks like it's intended to continue into argus, but they also look to be trying to give us some form of buffs and coverage for our weak points at the same time.

    There's a LOT of support buttons, and my advice is just leave them until you're comfortable tanking. Spend a good long time just focusing on tanking and using your hands only for yourself outside of choreographed moments in the fight. Once you are comfortable with your own rotation you'll know when you can afford to give others heals & hands. Likewise get used to seraphim on non-bleeding edge content as a dps booster without getting yourself killed.

    But overall, paladins 'challenging' play comes from being able to die easier than other tanks. The main buttons themselves are very simple and naturally feed into eachother.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  3. #3
    Thank you for elaborate answer.

    Yes, being undergeared is taking its part, but I disagree about the part where you say that rotation is easy. In my mind "easy" means easy control over your mitigation as making it 100% (or close to it) uptime, but very short bursts of defense makes you extra vulnerable for unexpected spikes. I understand that it would be stupid to compare it to braindead rotation of the bear, but I expected it to be more like warrior with shield block, but it's absolutely different.

    I heard that even at insane amounts of haste (like 50%) you still only get 80% of sotr uptime, is this true?

  4. #4
    Blizzard dont know either i think, Lowest HP tank in the game that has only 50-70% active mitigation uptime, and in order to do comparable damage to the other tanks you have to specc seraphim and gimp your survivability even more in doing so, dont get me wrong i understand that a 100% uptime of a 50% damage reduction against anything would be total stupid but maybe they should rework shield of the righteous then or the entire class again.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianus View Post
    Blizzard dont know either i think, Lowest HP tank in the game that has only 50-70% active mitigation uptime, and in order to do comparable damage to the other tanks you have to specc seraphim and gimp your survivability even more in doing so, dont get me wrong i understand that a 100% uptime of a 50% damage reduction against anything would be total stupid but maybe they should rework shield of the righteous then or the entire class again.
    My thoughts exactly. And they even nerfing Seraphim increasing it's cooldown by 50% to 45 seconds when it's not even that great in the first place with fixed numbers in the world of fast inflating gear.

    Is there a reason to go full mastery and maxing block?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    My thoughts exactly. And they even nerfing Seraphim increasing it's cooldown by 50% to 45 seconds when it's not even that great in the first place with fixed numbers in the world of fast inflating gear.

    Is there a reason to go full mastery and maxing block?
    I mean as i understand it they were going for a more active approach than the other tanks as in as a paladin you have to plan more beforehand in what your going to use were and when but in a realworld scenario it just doesnt fly, players are always going the easy route, i clear myth+ up to 18-19 with my guild but get declined in random myth+ 15-16 in favor for bears/dk just because im a paladin and susceptable to geting spiked to death, i dont know about other tanks but in fortified weeks in myth+ 18+ i need to pull with AD/Guardian up to not get insta gibbed on pull because of my HP Pool.

    Its the same with KJ you have to gimp your damage in favor of surviving felclaws because of no 100% active uptime and so on there are 100 of other instances of this sort the whole expansion.
    Last edited by Lorianus; 2017-08-04 at 01:23 PM.

  7. #7
    In all honesty without a health buff, increasing block will still not save us from being instagibbed the moment we fuck up.

  8. #8
    Don't bother with prot paladin. You'll do less damage and have crappier survivabilty playing at an optimum than just being very average on a druid or dk. Not worth it.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    My thoughts exactly. And they even nerfing Seraphim increasing it's cooldown by 50% to 45 seconds when it's not even that great in the first place with fixed numbers in the world of fast inflating gear.

    Is there a reason to go full mastery and maxing block?
    Not really. Personally, I go full haste in an attempt to get the CD on Shield of the Righteous as low as possible. Its uptime basically defines our survivability. It should be up 100% for heavy hitting abilities during progression, which means Seraphim is totally useless. It should only be used when overgearing content, which means our DPS is usually rubbish during progression. Stick with Righteous Protector and learn how to use SotR + HotP to handle spikes.

    It really is all down to SotR. It's a fantastic active mitigation tool, and its uptime is the key. The rest of the rotation is pretty much spammable, so it's all about learning when, where and how to use SotR, occasionally together with things like Ardent Defender and Eye of Tyr.

    Oh yes, and remember to stand in your own Concecration when you use SotR, for the extra effect.

  10. #10
    The thing I hate the most about SOTR is that you're required to have a mob in front of you in target. It would be so much easier to manage if it was just a buff without it's damage portion.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    The thing I hate the most about SOTR is that you're required to have a mob in front of you in target. It would be so much easier to manage if it was just a buff without it's damage portion.
    Yeah, it can get a bit annoying on certain fights, like tanking Maiden on Avatar or Atrigan on Inquisition. Easy to get flattened when not handled properly.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    The thing I hate the most about SOTR is that you're required to have a mob in front of you in target. It would be so much easier to manage if it was just a buff without it's damage portion.
    Tfw you die because of tab targetting being awful,same thing with death strike for DKs

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianus View Post
    I mean as i understand it they were going for a more active approach than the other tanks as in as a paladin you have to plan more beforehand in what your going to use were and when but in a realworld scenario it just doesnt fly, players are always going the easy route, i clear myth+ up to 18-19 with my guild but get declined in random myth+ 15-16 in favor for bears/dk just because im a paladin and susceptable to geting spiked to death, i dont know about other tanks but in fortified weeks in myth+ 18+ i need to pull with AD/Guardian up to not get insta gibbed on pull because of my HP Pool.

    Its the same with KJ you have to gimp your damage in favor of surviving felclaws because of no 100% active uptime and so on there are 100 of other instances of this sort the whole expansion.
    I have 100% uptime of my SotR at KJ tbh, at least at Felclaws. But I also have to skill holy shield and Bastion of Light. I also have Chrono Shard and Memento. I tried the Leg trinket instead of Chrono Shard once and it went horribly wrong, because I couldnt reset my mitigation fast enough.

    I also can't think of a situation, where some group declined me. But I'll rarely pug, so maybe I was just lucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    The thing I hate the most about SOTR is that you're required to have a mob in front of you in target. It would be so much easier to manage if it was just a buff without it's damage portion.
    Yes, I think it sucks in some situations. Goroth Mythic, when you get the Burning Armor debuff, I need to spend 2 Charges so I have enough uptime to run away and explode still with my mitigation up. But overall I think it's very cool. And we can heal without hitting someone, thats kinda cool. I have a Dh tank as a raidpartner and he always complains that he is standing there and left to the mercy of the healers, when he doesn't have something to hit and heal himself. So I think everybody (except druid ofc) has it's pros and cons.

    I, personally, love the Tankpaladin as it is right now, but maybe thats because I don't do much mythic progression, because I am in a casual guild. We just started myhtic and killed Goroth on our first raid. My highest M+ Key is like 19 since rework I think, but you really need to watch, when to press what, or you die.

    Greets

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    The thing I hate the most about SOTR is that you're required to have a mob in front of you in target. It would be so much easier to manage if it was just a buff without it's damage portion.
    There is just something inherently wrong with the fact that we are the tank that is by far most dependent on having active mitigation up and at the same time:
    a) we need someone in melee range to use it, as well as to use one of our cooldowns
    b) our active mitigation is also our most dependable source of burst damage

    If we have to live and die on SotR then we should not have these constraints.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    There is just something inherently wrong with the fact that we are the tank that is by far most dependent on having active mitigation up and at the same time:
    a) we need someone in melee range to use it, as well as to use one of our cooldowns
    b) our active mitigation is also our most dependable source of burst damage

    If we have to live and die on SotR then we should not have these constraints.
    And then there is the bit that we are back to having everything locked out if we get silenced, we cannot even bash anyone with our hammer or shield without our voice it seems, next we will probably lose our ability to move at all when silenced...

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    And then there is the bit that we are back to having everything locked out if we get silenced, we cannot even bash anyone with our hammer or shield without our voice it seems, next we will probably lose our ability to move at all when silenced...
    Is that even an issue? I can't remember anything silence related that can actually screw tanks.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    Is that even an issue? I can't remember anything silence related that can actually screw tanks.
    Sisters (all) and Kil'jaeden (mythic only) both have puddles of silence.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Blutelf View Post
    Sisters (all) and Kil'jaeden (mythic only) both have puddles of silence.
    Aren't all raid silences now disarms you? For example I can't even hit a mob with a stick or my palm while under the most non-player silences on my brewmaster.

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