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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    There are more BM parses than MM parses. If they weren't "viable" they wouldn't be taken.

    MM does more on AoE. If your raid is struggling with adds then spec into it to help out more. Other than that, it matters not a jot. It's whichever you prefer.
    There are more BM parses cause you need boots to play MM. For BM you dont need anything really. you can either have belt ring neck or bracers and you ll be good. The blizzard geniouses came up with the idea make BM shoulders baseline, because they thought it was too good, and then destroyed BM by turning into a bad dps stomp build. And forced us to turn to farming MM legendary. Then had us farming BM shoulders.. and now farming MM boots the morons
    Last edited by Atlantis82; 2017-08-08 at 08:21 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    Ofc you're moving for those? I think you aren't aware of how far ahead MM is on dps, compared to BM. On a stand still fight, it isn't close. The more movement you add, the closer it gets, Avatar is the closest, but with perfect play, MM just does more damage. Logs prove that, aswell as what some high level raiders have stated on hunter disc.
    I agree there, especiall with gloves it offsets the movement a lot

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    That doesn't make it the right choice? Nice logic. BM is easy, most players are bad, therefore most players play BM.
    Or they have no boots so its BM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Or they have no boots so its BM.
    Ofc, this is assuming full BiS on both. If you aren't, definitely BM can be better.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    I was assuming that he meant good players, not all. Because who tf cares about your average pleb when discussing which spec is better.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Wrong, MM is better for progression, if you're good at it, and movement management. If not, yeah use BM, it's a good crutch.
    Isn't that kinda obvious? The average is the majority, and so it matters more then what the top2% uses.

    I don't mean to offend but the way you are acting here is what gives the term elitist a bad rep

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Nupomaniac View Post
    Isn't that kinda obvious? The average is the majority, and so it matters more then what the top2% uses.

    I don't mean to offend but the way you are acting here is what gives the term elitist a bad rep
    It's just basics? You don't balance a spec around people who can't play it correctly. Sorry if that's blunt, but it's just the truth. Most people can't play their spec well. There's nothing wrong with that, you do you, not being good at a video game says nothing about a person.

    But just because average players are the majority, doesn't mean you'd ever balance specs around them. Because then harder specs will be extremely broken and op, when suddenly in the hands of a top player. Then average players will complain that blah spec is op (even though the majority will never get that level of use out of it)

    It just isn't possible to balance around your average joe, and still have a semi-balanced game.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    It's just basics? You don't balance a spec around people who can't play it correctly. Sorry if that's blunt, but it's just the truth. Most people can't play their spec well. There's nothing wrong with that, you do you, not being good at a video game says nothing about a person.

    But just because average players are the majority, doesn't mean you'd ever balance specs around them. Because then harder specs will be extremely broken and op, when suddenly in the hands of a top player. Then average players will complain that blah spec is op (even though the majority will never get that level of use out of it)

    It just isn't possible to balance around your average joe, and still have a semi-balanced game.
    Your problem is that you see things in Black or White. You are either a god, or a pleb. There are so many different levels of skill that using the term bad vs good loses all meaning.

    MM is Haarder to play then BM for everyone. I cant Think of a single person that Would have any reason to say otherwise. For progression and learning fights BM is Way Easter to play and get consistent results with. If the dps difference is neglible then BM Will obviously be favored.

    Dont tell me the top guilds in the world wouldnt Go MM If it Was better for progression as long as you arent bad at it

    Excuse the hard to read english i am writing from a tablet with a hardcoded Danish autocorrect

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Nupomaniac View Post
    Your problem is that you see things in Black or White. You are either a god, or a pleb. There are so many different levels of skill that using the term bad vs good loses all meaning.

    MM is Haarder to play then BM for everyone. I cant Think of a single person that Would have any reason to say otherwise. For progression and learning fights BM is Way Easter to play and get consistent results with. If the dps difference is neglible then BM Will obviously be favored.

    Dont tell me the top guilds in the world wouldnt Go MM If it Was better for progression as long as you arent bad at it

    Excuse the hard to read english i am writing from a tablet with a hardcoded Danish autocorrect
    When it comes to balancing, it is pretty black and white, Blizzard balances around playing a spec perfectly.

    And no, I don't see people as either a god, or a pleb. But thanks for making random assumptions. I'd rather not spend 20minutes typing out each individual skill level and the outcomes for them, I don't really see why you're so offended by that.

    MM is harder than BM for everyone yes, but if a new raid comes out, and you're exellent at BM and MM, and excellent at movement management, MM is better, sure BM would be easier to learn the fights with, but easier doesn't mean better. How many attempts do you think it should take you to learn a fight? It really shouldn't take many, atleast before you understand movement.

    You learn all the bosses movement shit in week 1, then when mythic is out, there's usually 0-2 things new to learn, which doesn't take long. If you 1 shot the boss, you clearly didn't need to spend time learning it, the boss doesn't matter, if you take over 5 wipes, you clearly were going to wipe anyway, and now you should be very good at managing the movement on that fight.

    Even the top guilds in the world, the players have choice, and preference.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    When it comes to balancing, it is pretty black and white, Blizzard balances around playing a spec perfectly.

    And no, I don't see people as either a god, or a pleb. But thanks for making random assumptions. I'd rather not spend 20minutes typing out each individual skill level and the outcomes for them, I don't really see why you're so offended by that.

    MM is harder than BM for everyone yes, but if a new raid comes out, and you're exellent at BM and MM, and excellent at movement management, MM is better, sure BM would be easier to learn the fights with, but easier doesn't mean better. How many attempts do you think it should take you to learn a fight? It really shouldn't take many, atleast before you understand movement.

    You learn all the bosses movement shit in week 1, then when mythic is out, there's usually 0-2 things new to learn, which doesn't take long. If you 1 shot the boss, you clearly didn't need to spend time learning it, the boss doesn't matter, if you take over 5 wipes, you clearly were going to wipe anyway, and now you should be very good at managing the movement on that fight.

    Even the top guilds in the world, the players have choice, and preference.
    Not really sure why everyone keeps argueing with you.....I mean all this guy is saying is that both are viable and MM just does more damage if both specs are played perfectly. You could legit play BM for every single fight in ToS and do just fine but in most situations if you played MM at the top level you could do more dps. I do not understand why when someone makes a completely reasonable accurate statement that we rabbit hole into this endless attempt to prove how one persons point is slightly more right or correct than someone elses point.

    Just leave it at these two very basic very true statements and move on with your lives.

    1. BM is viable and perfectly fine for any and all content in ToS and has been used in TOP 5 World kills on every boss
    2. MM if played perfectly would in almost all situations yeild more dps with appropriate bis legos/gear.

    Thanks

  10. #50
    From logs BM seems more popular for Avatar and Kil'Jaeden, although there are only about 4 guilds with public logs that have killed KJ.

    It's worth noticing that all BM parses on mythic KJ are wearing Call of the Wild, likely for the cooldown reduction to Aspect of the Turtle. More immunities for a soak-heavy fight makes sense, and using Call of the Wild on MM would be a huge dps loss.

  11. #51
    The Insane Rorcanna's Avatar
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    Of course it's viable...

    And MM has become the spec which assholes flock to in order to feel superior in every way thanks to damage and that they can tell everyone NOT MM how bad they are. Doesn't mean BM isn't viable at the level most players play at.
    MMO Champion is not so much a fan forum as it is a forum where jaded people lacking in self-control congregate in order to shit over an entirely optional product and those daring to actually enjoy said product.

    Haters gonna hate.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Guzrud View Post
    Not really sure why everyone keeps argueing with you.....I mean all this guy is saying is that both are viable and MM just does more damage if both specs are played perfectly. You could legit play BM for every single fight in ToS and do just fine but in most situations if you played MM at the top level you could do more dps. I do not understand why when someone makes a completely reasonable accurate statement that we rabbit hole into this endless attempt to prove how one persons point is slightly more right or correct than someone elses point.

    Just leave it at these two very basic very true statements and move on with your lives.

    1. BM is viable and perfectly fine for any and all content in ToS and has been used in TOP 5 World kills on every boss
    2. MM if played perfectly would in almost all situations yeild more dps with appropriate bis legos/gear.

    Thanks
    He is arguing that MM is better for progression because If played perfectly it does more damage.

    Where as a lot of People argument that the increased mobility of BM helps People overcome mistakes on progression fights which males BM a better spec for progression in some cases


    There is a lot more then raw damage output that determines What specs are good for progression
    Last edited by Nupomaniac; 2017-08-09 at 09:42 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Khallid View Post
    From logs BM seems more popular for Avatar and Kil'Jaeden, although there are only about 4 guilds with public logs that have killed KJ.

    It's worth noticing that all BM parses on mythic KJ are wearing Call of the Wild, likely for the cooldown reduction to Aspect of the Turtle. More immunities for a soak-heavy fight makes sense, and using Call of the Wild on MM would be a huge dps loss.
    it's more for the on demand burst that aspect of the wild provides since most are using convergence as well

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    it's more for the on demand burst that aspect of the wild provides since most are using convergence as well
    That doesn't sound unreasonable, but from the logs that are public they are throwing Aspect if the Wild on cooldown, whether it drops on adds or not. So I'm still willing to think that cooldown reduction to turtle is the more important factor. Every one of the logs I see used turtle 4 or 5 times per fight. You need to immune a lot of Armagedon on mythic, since 2 big comets fall every time.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    MM has become the spec which assholes flock to
    That's a lot of assholes
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Guzrud View Post
    Not really sure why everyone keeps argueing with you.....I mean all this guy is saying is that both are viable and MM just does more damage if both specs are played perfectly.
    Which triggers all the BMs, who for some reason need the forum to validate their spec choices.

    You could legit play BM for every single fight in ToS and do just fine but in most situations if you played MM at the top level you could do more dps.
    And since this forum turned into the Cult of Mah Deeps Epeen, rather than how to be good at all aspects and do what's best for your raid, BMs get pissed at not being top.

    [quoteI do not understand why when someone makes a completely reasonable accurate statement that we rabbit hole into this endless attempt to prove how one persons point is slightly more right or correct than someone elses point.[/quote]Welcome to the MMO-C forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Top parse =/= correct play.

  17. #57
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    Also, looking at the top parses, we don't necessarily know that, that player was doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing during the fight. Guilds have people that ignore mechanics and expect people to keep them alive in order to get better parses.
    [Shirou - BM/MM - 935 - Tanaris] , [Youn - Brewmaster - 890 - Tanaris]
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  18. #58
    Scarab Lord Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youn View Post
    Also, looking at the top parses, we don't necessarily know that, that player was doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing during the fight. Guilds have people that ignore mechanics and expect people to keep them alive in order to get better parses.
    That's only relevant when you look at the top x parses, and even then it's a stretch to discredit them. Looking at over 10000 parses weeds out these outliers. That's why we compare at something like the 75-85th percentile.

  19. #59
    I am in a 4/9 mythic guild and main BM. I'm just as competitive in DPS as our MM hunter and generally can out DPS him. I greatly prefer the movement that BM allows for and find that it's well worth any potential loss of DPS switching specs.

  20. #60
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    The question is do your find yourself near the top of the pack, middle of the pack or bottom of the heap. Out dpsing, your MM doesn't mean you stand a chance vs say your guilds warlocks.
    [Shirou - BM/MM - 935 - Tanaris] , [Youn - Brewmaster - 890 - Tanaris]
    EN 7/7 - Mythic | ToV 3/3 - Heroic | NH 7/10 - Mythic | ToS 5/9 - Mythic

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