ToS already suffering from same problems as NH

[Umbrex]

meanwhile, like 15 guilds cleared it as OP is about to step foot into mythic

...thinking

[RoKPaNda]

Thanks to Asmongold and Preach (And their videos on the subject have been debunked numerous times now.) everyone that fails at Mythic raiding thinks it's because balancing around titanforge rather than a l2p issue. The ONLY time titanforge will have a negative impact on you is if you're in the top handful of guilds, and even then it's mostly imaginary.

The real problem is that EN was hilariously easy and quite a few people think that they're Mythic raiders when in reality they are not. NH and ToS aren't too hard, and it's not "because of titanforging." - They're properly tuned.

[Krille]

Mythic is generally tuned around the item level of the mythic tier, although that's the latter and more difficult bosses, end boss is generally a few item levels above that. The only exception is the first few bosses which are generally tuned slightly below or above the item level of the last bosses on heroic.

M Goroth/Inquisition/Harjatan tuned around 920 item level
M Sisters/Host/Mistress/Maidens tuned around 925 item level
M Avatar tuned around 930 item level
M KJ tuned around 935 item level.

Baseline tuning before nerfs and buffs, mistress is probably ranked right below Avatar, and maidens is probably closer to Harjatan than Mistress when it comes to tuning.

GL doing mistress with a 925 raid. Unless it's fully optimized with only fotm specs you will have a hard time with that ilvl.

[MisterBigglez]

RNG needs to stay away from raid mechanics, thats my only issue. Ilvl just helps kill bosses quicker, it doesn't make it easy. Look at Mistress on mythic, as your group gets better, the strategy changes because you phase too quickly which might screw you over due to timings.

[harruin]

Isn't the real issue the weekly M+ chest? Or am I just the unluckiest person in the world not getting titanforged raid drops?

[kamuimac]

GL doing mistress with a 925 raid. Unless it's fully optimized with only fotm specs you will have a hard time with that ilvl.

if only you could collect 930 gear from bosses before her for couple of months - oh yes you can - like in every single previous f.... tier before for past 14 years . crazy idea to farm bosses for gear i know

[BiggestNoob]

Thanks to Asmongold and Preach (And their videos on the subject have been debunked numerous times now.) everyone that fails at Mythic raiding thinks it's because balancing around titanforge rather than a l2p issue. The ONLY time titanforge will have a negative impact on you is if you're in the top handful of guilds, and even then it's mostly imaginary.

This is false. If tuning changes have to be made to expect the top guilds to have TF gear, the bosses will be tuned higher requiring even more farm for literally every other guild.

This isn't complicated to understand.

[SinR]

Item Level can only do so much against those "you miss it and you're fucked" mechanics

[Deleted]

GL doing mistress with a 925 raid. Unless it's fully optimized with only fotm specs you will have a hard time with that ilvl.

It was tuned around that requirement when you had tanks tanking the hydra shots.

Mistress doesn't really require high dps or item level, it requires perfect execution of fairly easy mechanics (mainly getting most damage out of pufferfish).

[Krille]

if only you could collect 930 gear from bosses before her for couple of months - oh yes you can - like in every single previous f.... tier before for past 14 years . crazy idea to farm bosses for gear i know

Ehhh i was responding to a guy that said mistress was tuned for 925 ilvl.

- - - Updated - - -

It was tuned around that requirement when you had tanks tanking the hydra shots.

Mistress doesn't really require high dps or item level, it requires perfect execution of fairly easy mechanics (mainly getting most damage out of pufferfish).

Yea the mechanics themselves are very easy. The overlaps is what makes it difficult. And the DPS requirement can be punishing at 925 ilvl.

[Deleted]

Ehhh i was responding to a guy that said mistress was tuned for 925 ilvl.

- - - Updated - - -



Yea the mechanics themselves are very easy. The overlaps is what makes it difficult. And the DPS requirement can be punishing at 925 ilvl.

True, but in our progression we never wiped once due to damage at 930 item level (which is very easy to get).

If we wiped it was mainly due to poor execution of the mechanics, think most of our wipes came due to adds getting killed too fast, and poor soaking of the shots. But to damage, I think we wiped once or two at sub 1% due to 10 people being dead and hitting the berserk at the same time.

[Krille]

True, but in our progression we never wiped once due to damage at 930 item level (which is very easy to get).

If we wiped it was mainly due to poor execution of the mechanics, think most of our wipes came due to adds getting killed too fast, and poor soaking of the shots. But to damage, I think we wiped once or two at sub 1% due to 10 people being dead and hitting the berserk at the same time.

At 930 yes? There's a huge difference on a 925 average raid vs a 930 average raid. If you barely kill it before berserk at 930 ilvl then imagine dropping an average 5 ilvl on everyone in the raid. It's just bullshit that it's tuned for 925, huge difference between sisters/host and mistress. A clear step up.

[Argorwal]

*I* want? I was talking about Blizzard there, not me.

Of course Blizzard wants gear to dribble out slowly. The slowest that players will tolerate. That should have been totally obvious.



Gear RNG mostly averages out, except for individual slots with oversized effect (legendaries).

Split runs are a separate problem from -forging.

Gear dribbled out slowly in Vanilla/TBC where you'd kill a boss and get 2 items for 40/25 people.

Gear rains from the sky in modern WoW. Getting 5-6 pieces per boss in mythic plus seals.

If your tinfoil hat theory was correct we'd be going in the opposite direction.

[Bryntrollian]

Someone thought they would faceroll Mythic content by brute forcing with ilvl.

Must've been a rude awakening. Mythic bosses aren't tuned for TF Mythic gear btw, its been cleared with ~920 raid ilvl.

That must be exactly why only 12 guilds have cleared Mythic with none of them being sub 930.

[kamuimac]

At 930 yes? There's a huge difference on a 925 average raid vs a 930 average raid. If you barely kill it before berserk at 930 ilvl then imagine dropping an average 5 ilvl on everyone in the raid. It's just bullshit that it's tuned for 925, huge difference between sisters/host and mistress. A clear step up.

luckily 930 itlv nowadays means having around 920 itlv in each slot + legendaries and artifact - which is easy to achieve before you get there.

unless you feel need to clear raid in 2-3 resets.

[Osmeric]

Gear dribbled out slowly in Vanilla/TBC where you'd kill a boss and get 2 items for 40/25 people.

Gear rains from the sky in modern WoW. Getting 5-6 pieces per boss in mythic plus seals.

If your tinfoil hat theory was correct we'd be going in the opposite direction.

Un -forged gear rains from the sky.

-forged gear dribbles out, especially at higher -forge levels.

I thought this was obvious in what I was saying, but I guess I needed to use smaller words?

[Kazuchika]

And what happened before forging? Right 2 different raid sizes. Most of the tuning back then would be for balancing the encounters for the raid sizes.

You're wasting your time arguing with someone who does nothing but LFR.

Which is pretty hilarious now that I think about it because he spends so much time white knighting casuals on the forums that he probably only has time to play the actual game 20 min a week.

[Osmeric]

someone who does nothing but LFR.

It happens to be the case that you are lying there. Please stop lying, mkay?

If all the raiding I could do was LFR I'd have unsubbed long ago. LFR is thin gruel of an end game experience.

[Riistov]

Maybe you should consider having the raid learn the mechanics so you not "reprogress" every reset. You don't need to out gear a fight to have it on farm...

Yup..learning mechanics is the biggest faceroll of all!

[Umbrex]

another "oh im a big fat noob so im going to blame titanforging post"

0/10