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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by NoiseTank13 View Post
    ... he doesn't do the damage. that's the issue. His threat can be ignored, and none of the flanker/offense types fear him or his hook, so they feel free to farm him for ult and then go for the rest of his team.

    If you refuse to see that, then there's nothing more to be said.
    From the exact gif you yourself link. Roadhog pulled the soldier out of position, taking him out of LoS from his team and away from his corner he can use to peak. A single shot gets him down to critical health, at which point all it would take is a single easy attack from any other member of his team that was there to finish the out of position enemy.

    This mentality that a TANK needs the ability to be able to do everything himself from 100 to 0 is flat out wrong. Not to mention it defeats the purpose of a TEAM based game.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    From the exact gif you yourself link. Roadhog pulled the soldier out of position, taking him out of LoS from his team and away from his corner he can use to peak. A single shot gets him down to critical health, at which point all it would take is a single easy attack from any other member of his team that was there to finish the out of position enemy.

    This mentality that a TANK needs the ability to be able to do everything himself from 100 to 0 is flat out wrong. Not to mention it defeats the purpose of a TEAM based game.
    Im sorry, I thought you said he missed his shots?
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  3. #43
    Still think Rip-Tire needs a little more health. Would also be nice if it couldn't be targeted by turrets.
    Last edited by Drakainen; 2017-08-12 at 12:55 AM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    From the exact gif you yourself link. Roadhog pulled the soldier out of position, taking him out of LoS from his team and away from his corner he can use to peak. A single shot gets him down to critical health, at which point all it would take is a single easy attack from any other member of his team that was there to finish the out of position enemy.

    This mentality that a TANK needs the ability to be able to do everything himself from 100 to 0 is flat out wrong. Not to mention it defeats the purpose of a TEAM based game.
    Except Roadhog's entire design was the exact opposite of that, and he got nothing but nerf after nerf with no compensation, and the current buff on the PTR isn't enough. he has never been a tank, only by name only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakainen View Post
    Would also be nice if it couldn't be targeted by turrets.
    Yes please. Enemy team has a Torby? You can't use your ult.

  5. #45
    I've got a bit of a conspiracy theory about Blizz lately when it comes to balance: Blizzard doesn't want balance, but instead changes things around to make certain people better or worse to keep the game interesting. Instead of finding a balance where people can pick whatever and have checks and balances and a chess style game where it comes down to just who plays it better, they just switch things around to change it up. MEta staying 2/2/2 too long? Swap up hero strengths to push people into new roles and metas. Rein gets picked too much? Throw in some nerfs or changes that make sure he's 60% worse than what he used to be (hammer swing randomly missing), and force people into different tanks.
    JUst silly shit like that, and the fact that there are games out there that have balance between classes or teams and Blizz could theoretically find the same balance, makes this seem plausible. I'm not monkey shit crazy and saying this is definitely happening, just something I've picked up on lately when I started thinking about their other games like Starcraft, WoW, Hearthstone, and OW.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    I've got a bit of a conspiracy theory about Blizz lately when it comes to balance: Blizzard doesn't want balance, but instead changes things around to make certain people better or worse to keep the game interesting. Instead of finding a balance where people can pick whatever and have checks and balances and a chess style game where it comes down to just who plays it better, they just switch things around to change it up. MEta staying 2/2/2 too long? Swap up hero strengths to push people into new roles and metas. Rein gets picked too much? Throw in some nerfs or changes that make sure he's 60% worse than what he used to be (hammer swing randomly missing), and force people into different tanks.
    JUst silly shit like that, and the fact that there are games out there that have balance between classes or teams and Blizz could theoretically find the same balance, makes this seem plausible. I'm not monkey shit crazy and saying this is definitely happening, just something I've picked up on lately when I started thinking about their other games like Starcraft, WoW, Hearthstone, and OW.
    This is not some big conspiracy, it definitely happens.

    You could accuse Riot of this too with League.

    Blizz just doesn't understand the concept of subtlety and they go way too hard with buffs/nerfs, especially in OW (and WoW I suppose, don't follow Hearthstone)

  7. #47
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    People keep saying Roadhog is a bullet sponge, but why would you ever want him to soak? It's literally just giving them free ult charges, why not have a Reinhardt or Orisa shield instead? Where you also prevent the danger of suddenly being headshotted or oneshot from whatever means. I just feel having him simply being promoted as a bullet sponge is a bit counterproductive where other tanks can do the same job way less risky and more efficiently, without providing ultimates for the enemy team. Otherwise all he has is a gun that sometimes one shots people (random right click spam woo), and hook that seemingly breaks from air touching it, and now able to run while healing(albit less).

    Main point being, why would bullet sponge be a good thing?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukro View Post
    People keep saying Roadhog is a bullet sponge, but why would you ever want him to soak? It's literally just giving them free ult charges, why not have a Reinhardt or Orisa shield instead? Where you also prevent the danger of suddenly being headshotted or oneshot from whatever means. I just feel having him simply being promoted as a bullet sponge is a bit counterproductive where other tanks can do the same job way less risky and more efficiently, without providing ultimates for the enemy team. Otherwise all he has is a gun that sometimes one shots people (random right click spam woo), and hook that seemingly breaks from air touching it, and now able to run while healing(albit less).

    Main point being, why would bullet sponge be a good thing?
    I don't believe he can even one shot with his right click anymore that's how bad his damage was nerfed.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoiseTank13 View Post
    I don't believe he can even one shot with his right click anymore that's how bad his damage was nerfed.
    I have had enough experiences of running past and having a random shit hit someone with 200 hp, bam insta dead. Not something that is coincidental, it actually is possible.
    Just the way it is now feels worse then before, since at if you get the perfect range from a target, it can one shot them, but if you're an inch closer or too far away, it will hit like peanut butter.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dukro View Post
    People keep saying Roadhog is a bullet sponge, but why would you ever want him to soak? It's literally just giving them free ult charges, why not have a Reinhardt or Orisa shield instead? Where you also prevent the danger of suddenly being headshotted or oneshot from whatever means. I just feel having him simply being promoted as a bullet sponge is a bit counterproductive where other tanks can do the same job way less risky and more efficiently, without providing ultimates for the enemy team. Otherwise all he has is a gun that sometimes one shots people (random right click spam woo), and hook that seemingly breaks from air touching it, and now able to run while healing(albit less).

    Main point being, why would bullet sponge be a good thing?
    It's not that it's a good or bad thing, it's just part of who he is, a big target with lots of HP. That is enough to stick him in the tank group but really he is more of an incidental tank than a legit one.
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  11. #51
    Roadhog is still shit, still a big bullet sponge ult charger. Only now he lives much longer so he can double charge ults.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Gotta disagree. Before, he was played essentially as a tanky DPS, not a tank. He flanked and picked people off. Neutering his damage output meant he could no longer pick people off effectively, but he still lacked the defensive tools to really handle front-line stuff; he ended up being a bullet sponge that often just gave the enemy team ult charge.

    The changes here mean that using Take a Breather isn't a death sentence if you aren't hidden; you can pop it any time as a survival tool. The 50% damage reduction also helps ensure that you're much less of an ult charge sponge while using it, even beyond the added difficulty of hitting the mobile Roadhog (not that his fat ass is hard to hit, but you can duck around a corner while channeling it now). You can pop it to keep yourself alive as you run for cover, whereas right now, you've got to hope that they can't kill you.

    It'll hopefully make Roadhog more valid as a pick for front-line harassment duty, less offensive oomph than his pre-nerf iteration, but WAY more survivability.
    I mean he's still garbage as a tank. He has no defensive options. Like.. is he job to stand in front of the bullets with Take a Breather and just soak damage for Rein or Orisa's shield? Just use a D.va. Her defense matrix lasts longer and absorbs an infinite amount of damage instead of being limited to 1200. You want a tank with a good source of damage output and pockets of defensive options and a powerful offensive ult? Take Orisa or Zarya.

    If they want Roadhog to be the least defensive and most offensive tank hero then they basically need to remove his hook. The offender of the hook and shoot combo is not the actual shot damage, it was the hook. Have you tried one shotting people with Roadhog without it? Kinda difficult to do. It makes it pretty balanced. You introduce that hook and suddenly he's better at sneaking behind enemy lines and picking off a key member than Reaper, Sombra, or Genji are. Like fuck man imagine if Reaper had the ability to stun a target and pull them right in front of his shotgun.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I mean he's still garbage as a tank. He has no defensive options. Like.. is he job to stand in front of the bullets with Take a Breather and just soak damage for Rein or Orisa's shield? Just use a D.va. Her defense matrix lasts longer and absorbs an infinite amount of damage instead of being limited to 1200. You want a tank with a good source of damage output and pockets of defensive options and a powerful offensive ult? Take Orisa or Zarya.
    Want someone who can do a bit of both? Roadhog.
    Want someone who can pick off specific opponents, pulling them into the team to be killed? Roadhog.

    He's got uses. That other tanks shine at their strengths does not mean Roadhog is useless.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Want someone who can do a bit of both? Roadhog.
    Want someone who can pick off specific opponents, pulling them into the team to be killed? Roadhog.

    He's got uses. That other tanks shine at their strengths does not mean Roadhog is useless.
    Except Zarya has more meaningful damage and with good team protection to boot, with additionally one of the best ultimates in the game. So why pick Roadhog over her?

    "Because hook-"

    In a game where mobility rains down from the heavens like candy from on high, this isn't really the case. This isn't a MOBA where picking someone out of position to land near your team usually meant CC->Damage->Death. This is an FPS where a fraction of a second is all that is needed between a kill and a waste of time and effort. Deflect, Recall, Sound Boop, Translocate, Leap, Wraith Form, Combat Roll, Barrier, Fortify, Conc Mine, Armor Packs, Grapple Hook (freshly buffed), Guardian Angel, and countless more that I can't even think of. Ice Barrier. Your team simply does not have the reaction time, nor the luxury of picturesque coordination because they are dealing with the hooked targets team as well. This is what you'll say when you hook someone:

    "Hooked Genji- and he's gone," with Genji zipping away mid-sentence. That didn't used to happen. And that is why Road Hog was picked- so he can be a threat to people who couldn't bait out the hooks or harassing Road Hog's team. Now he doesn't have much of any options, offense or defense to be picked. A buff that only encourages him to lone wolf it, doesn't help that.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Want someone who can do a bit of both? Roadhog.
    Want someone who can pick off specific opponents, pulling them into the team to be killed? Roadhog.

    He's got uses. That other tanks shine at their strengths does not mean Roadhog is useless.
    Except there are better options for all of that. He has no place. His niche was to pick off people they took that away.

    What's 2 seconds of 50% Dr gonna do for him? Live longer? Ya cause that's his problem
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Want someone who can do a bit of both? Roadhog.
    Want someone who can pick off specific opponents, pulling them into the team to be killed? Roadhog.

    He's got uses. That other tanks shine at their strengths does not mean Roadhog is useless.
    I mean... the only thing he has going for him over Zarya really is Hook. That's kinda the point I was making. If you removed the hook and altered his kit then he would be an actual pick that has strengths and weaknesses instead of being outclassed by Zarya except for Hook.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Want someone who can do a bit of both? Roadhog.
    Want someone who can pick off specific opponents, pulling them into the team to be killed? Roadhog.

    He's got uses. That other tanks shine at their strengths does not mean Roadhog is useless.
    Except no one else charges ults quite as fast as Roadhog, since damage done to barriers doesn't charge an ult. I mean, I'd rather someone like Sombra/Tracer/Genji if you really want to pick someone off, since Roadhog's hook is quite stoppable now.

  18. #58
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Except no one else charges ults quite as fast as Roadhog, since damage done to barriers doesn't charge an ult. I mean, I'd rather someone like Sombra/Tracer/Genji if you really want to pick someone off, since Roadhog's hook is quite stoppable now.
    To be fair, the 50% reduction when Taking a Breather should help with that, since ult charge is based on the damage they take, not the damage you could have dealt; it cuts that ult charge by half, AND lets you get out of there so they can't shoot you.

    I'm not convinced the changes will put Roadhog in a perfect place, and I never supported the reasons for his original nerf, I'm just taking issue with some of the rhetoric against him.

  19. #59
    The change said seem more to make him a backline protector of sorts, instead of this "lead the charge description" that Blizz gave tanks. He can easily outdamage and chase off diving Winston's and Dva's, and with his extra shot and faster shot rate he has decent fire against a Tracer or Genji. I'm not saying he's a direct counter, but anyone with some aim can chase off a Tracer.
    Picking him as a second tank and using him to protect the backline seems extremely viable, and I will still pick him sometimes in comp if I'm in a tank role and the enemy has characters that keep diving our support, or a Doomfist. God I love using Hog against DF, saving your hooks for him to get that stun off and put his ability on CD.
    To clarify, I'm not saying these changes will help him get back in the game or be picked more often, but viewing him in different roles, such as backline protector or secondary tank, someone to chase off flankers and pull people out of position from behind the enemy tanks, or pulling back people running away to get the kill, instead of this flanking beast he used to be, he still serves a niche role. I understand other characters can protect the backline, like a Reaper hanging back for Winston, or a 76 that is back a ways; however, Hog can dish out more damage against those characters than 76 is able to, and a good Winston will chase off that 76 or healer to have a 1v1 that favors him.

    On a side note: everyone wants to throw out that Hog is a bullet sponge, but that's exactly what Winston and Zarya are. They each get some utility by way of shields, but when Zarya's is down she's nothing more than a slow moving target (not the characters fault 1/2 the playerbase are to stupid to kill her when it wears off), and Winston is just a sitting duck without his. Sure, a good Winston can play the bubble in a close encounter, but average players don't think of this and get easily picked.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    The change said seem more to make him a backline protector of sorts, instead of this "lead the charge description" that Blizz gave tanks. He can easily outdamage and chase off diving Winston's and Dva's, and with his extra shot and faster shot rate he has decent fire against a Tracer or Genji. I'm not saying he's a direct counter, but anyone with some aim can chase off a Tracer.
    Picking him as a second tank and using him to protect the backline seems extremely viable, and I will still pick him sometimes in comp if I'm in a tank role and the enemy has characters that keep diving our support, or a Doomfist. God I love using Hog against DF, saving your hooks for him to get that stun off and put his ability on CD.
    To clarify, I'm not saying these changes will help him get back in the game or be picked more often, but viewing him in different roles, such as backline protector or secondary tank, someone to chase off flankers and pull people out of position from behind the enemy tanks, or pulling back people running away to get the kill, instead of this flanking beast he used to be, he still serves a niche role. I understand other characters can protect the backline, like a Reaper hanging back for Winston, or a 76 that is back a ways; however, Hog can dish out more damage against those characters than 76 is able to, and a good Winston will chase off that 76 or healer to have a 1v1 that favors him.

    On a side note: everyone wants to throw out that Hog is a bullet sponge, but that's exactly what Winston and Zarya are. They each get some utility by way of shields, but when Zarya's is down she's nothing more than a slow moving target (not the characters fault 1/2 the playerbase are to stupid to kill her when it wears off), and Winston is just a sitting duck without his. Sure, a good Winston can play the bubble in a close encounter, but average players don't think of this and get easily picked.
    That last bit about Zarya and Winston is ridiculous, not sure how you'd ever get to that opinion.

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