1. #1

    MM Rotation clarification

    Good afternoon, all

    Happy Friday!!!

    I've been doing some sims lately and trying to perfect the MM rotation. I've played BM throughout legion (yes, even when it was awful in EN) and recently moved to MM when ToS came out.

    I'm using both Raidbots and Ask Mr Robot for my sims but in this particular instance I want to focus on the Ask Mr Robot sims because I can disable bloodlust, pots, etc to get an accurate representation of what I should be doing "target dummy".

    In the AMR sims, it says after a 280 second fight, with no external buffs or cooldowns, I should be pulling appx 1M dps.

    In practice I am finding that I'm pulling between 950-960k DPS, so there is quite the discrepancy.

    Now that you have the history, the things I am curious about...

    Right now I am not casting marked shot (or windburst) unless I've pooled about 70ish focus, so that I can get the most out of vulnerable when it hits.

    Casting 2 aimed shots in a row with my 2-set is secondary priority to ensuring that I've always got about 60ish focus (unless I've less than 2 seconds left on vulnerable).

    I have crap MM legendaries (sephuz and belt, which doesn't help ST at all), and I'm sitting at 920 ilvl w/ CoF.

    A) - is there a flaw in my priority above, should I be pooling to a different amount...not pooling at all, etc...

    B) - If it seems correct, does the single target DPS above seem on point with what you guys are experiencing and the sims are just tweaked a little high (sometimes they give sephuz more than I personally think it's worth).

    I appreciate in advance for your responses, and before I get any responses linking icy-veins, I have been through the guide but I don't know if I'm missing the info or if it is the most updated.

    Thanks again,
    Uniel

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Uniel View Post
    In the AMR sims, it says after a 280 second fight, with no external buffs or cooldowns, I should be pulling appx 1M dps.

    In practice I am finding that I'm pulling between 950-960k DPS, so there is quite the discrepancy.
    5% discrepancy between performance and sim is NOTHING. Sims are useful for relative comparisons between various setups, for analyzing gear and talent performance in a theoretical context etc. It is NOT meant as an accurate modeling of a real raid fight, because there are too many extraneous factors involved.

  3. #3
    In case you also have the 4p, I can highly recommend you to take a look at the hunter guide Twise put together because the 2p/4p changes the rotation slightly to get more out of it. Just search for Twise Hunter Guide on YouTube and you'll find it.

    Other than that with 920 ilvl and no ST legendaries your target dummy damage looks fine to me.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    5% discrepancy between performance and sim is NOTHING. Sims are useful for relative comparisons between various setups, for analyzing gear and talent performance in a theoretical context etc. It is NOT meant as an accurate modeling of a real raid fight, because there are too many extraneous factors involved.
    Especially since Legion stomped the RNG gas pedal to the floor. Godly numbers... what do you mean wipe? Shit numbers, aaaand a kill. That started in Mists of BM but Legion has really upped it with all the procs.

    More on topic, yes OP, sims are just that, semi-idealized scenarios played out nearly perfectly. IRL, shit happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Top parse =/= correct play.

  5. #5
    BiS legendaries and sets matter a LOT. Nothing can push you up the ladder as these can.

    I've been doing a near perfect rotation and despite being 15 ilvls higher than some other MM Hunters, I used to barely keep up with others who had their ToS 4set and BiS. Now that I've completed the set and got my BiS, I'm always in the top 3 or top 5 at the very least when it comes to DPS.

    Combing a ToS 4set with a NH 2set and your BiS is the proper way to skyrocket yourself to the top of the DPS chart.

  6. #6
    Check out this guide by Twise, former Serenity raider, he explains it pretty well. It depends a bit on your haste as well but this will work as a start

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IvH8oW7k9E&t

  7. #7
    Thanks, all - I really appreciate it!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    BiS legendaries and sets matter a LOT. Nothing can push you up the ladder as these can.

    I've been doing a near perfect rotation and despite being 15 ilvls higher than some other MM Hunters, I used to barely keep up with others who had their ToS 4set and BiS. Now that I've completed the set and got my BiS, I'm always in the top 3 or top 5 at the very least when it comes to DPS.

    Combing a ToS 4set with a NH 2set and your BiS is the proper way to skyrocket yourself to the top of the DPS chart.
    I sim lower with 4pc + 2pc than 4pc + two high ilvl items. So I wouldn't say that's correct.
    I just got my ring, and have been simming and testing a lot of different gear-setups. I only have access to heroic quality gear from ToS and NH though..

    Anyway, I had one set of gear which used ring + gloves that simmed higher than 4pc - 2pc, and 7 different combinations that simmed higher with ring + boots. 30 ilvls + 30 ilvls > 2set NH. At least for me.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by NehmTH View Post
    I sim lower with 4pc + 2pc than 4pc + two high ilvl items. So I wouldn't say that's correct.
    I just got my ring, and have been simming and testing a lot of different gear-setups. I only have access to heroic quality gear from ToS and NH though..

    Anyway, I had one set of gear which used ring + gloves that simmed higher than 4pc - 2pc, and 7 different combinations that simmed higher with ring + boots. 30 ilvls + 30 ilvls > 2set NH. At least for me.
    Thanks for the feedback, Nehm. Currently I have a piece to replace 2 set that is +25 ilvls and one that is +20 ilvls and the sims are CLOSE, but 4pc2pc pulls ahead by around 50k dps. That seems to corroborate your statement, if I had 2 +30 it may pull ahead.

  10. #10
    The Patient
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    Be careful with Twise's guide, it's a tad outdated. According to the hunter discord, it's not really a good idea to pool focus to 100+ like he says in the video.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilnezhara View Post
    Be careful with Twise's guide, it's a tad outdated. According to the hunter discord, it's not really a good idea to pool focus to 100+ like he says in the video.
    His opener/trueshot usage is fairly accurate and more or less what Azor says to do in his guide. But yeah pooling focus as high as Twise does can be risky as it greatly increases the chance you will focus cap (which is sometimes unavoidable) plus you just get fewer focus windows altogether.

    Also keep in mind that execute phase is absolutely massive for MM. An actual 5 minute ST fight will allow you to reach 30 stacks before popping your final trueshot which is a lot of dps, especially if RNG is on your side.

  12. #12
    Pretty sure Twise edited the description in his video indicating that pooling for 3 AiS is less optimal than just pooling to 70 focus and then MS > AS > AiS > AiS. Leads to overall higher uptime of 2pc and no risk of focus capping.

  13. #13
    Just checked AskMrRobot Sim Dummy and they include the execute phase , so yeah, your dps will always appear smaller then what AskMrRobot tells you it is on dummy due to not having a execute phase ( bullseye has an uptime of 22% of those 300 seconds).

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabinn View Post
    Just checked AskMrRobot Sim Dummy and they include the execute phase , so yeah, your dps will always appear smaller then what AskMrRobot tells you it is on dummy due to not having a execute phase ( bullseye has an uptime of 22% of those 300 seconds).
    Thank you, Sabinn - that is what I have deduced as well which kinda stinks because it's tough for me to get an accurate sim from the target dummy due to this (as I haven't seen a way to turn the execute phase off in AMR or Raidbots.com).

    Now if I could only get the correct legendaries to drop! Got the cloak a couple of days ago it is slightly underwhelming.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Uniel View Post
    Thank you, Sabinn - that is what I have deduced as well which kinda stinks because it's tough for me to get an accurate sim from the target dummy due to this (as I haven't seen a way to turn the execute phase off in AMR or Raidbots.com).

    Now if I could only get the correct legendaries to drop! Got the cloak a couple of days ago it is slightly underwhelming.
    If you want to try and replicate a little bit change your talent to Careful, even though the crit chance is only 20% instead of 30% from bulls eye the up time is pretty much 100% which gives you around 70% AiS crits ( and without the pet it kinda evens out).

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