Honestly I'm really dreading the next expansion.

[Deleted]

Did you enjoy being a prisoner in your garrison once you were done raiding? Your hobbies irl must include fun activities such as watching paint dry or watching grass grow.

I was never a prisoner in my garrison. Were you? Then I bet you loved it - since the only way to be a prisoner in your garrison was to make yourself one. Cool fetish bro.

[Wheeljack]

I am torn on the topic.

I remember not looking forward to TBC one bit. Not at all. I enjoyed classic so much and did not want it to end. I played through TBC and of course had a blast, but not nearly as much as I had during my first year of playing.

The real hype didn’t start again until the announcement of Wrath. I have never, ever been as excited about a game-release in my entire life. As I played through Wrath and Cataclysm was announced I was filled with sadness. Almost close to what I felt with the TBC announcement. I thoroughly enjoyed Wrath of the Lich King and all its aspects. Continent, music, lore, raids and dungeons… everything. Another era I desperately did not want to see come to a close.

Cataclysm did not only end that beloved era, but also utterly destroyed the world I had the second most fond memories from. The old, classic world. It wasn’t all bad but that is how I remember that expansion. The world wasn’t the only thing Deathwing left in ruins.

I never really liked MoP. Not at all. Never felt at home in Pandaria and the whole theme of the expansion never sat very well with me. From a pure technical POV it was vastly better than its predecessor but for me personally it ranks near the bottom.

WoD came as a fresh breath, it had an enormous potential but it got neglected and rushed so heavily that it’s legacy will be remembered as the selfie-cam. It’s a shame, because the world was beautifully designed, the narrative was good (or well… as good as it can be from a time-travelling, alternate dimension kind of perspective). It was decent, but not “good” by any stretch of the imagination.

Legion I think is the best one so far. Never have they poured so much content into an expansion as they have with this one. Progressively changing the rewards you receive as to never really let content become obsolete… at least not to a certain point.
What I hope to see NOT make it to the next expansion is follower-missions on a timer. They have nothing to do in a subscription MMO at all. The only time-gates should really be the ones you set for yourself, or the time-frame in which content is released.

[Deleted]

Because you are an elitist snob who believes he isn't one or you are a person who doesn't think out his stance ... take your pick.

If I explicitly state something as my stance, because this was the situation of most fun for me, why do I have to "think out this stance"? I just stated what I like and why I like it. If you don't like it, fight for your stance. How is that elitist? You seem to confuse "elitist" with "things you can't do". I guess we just disagree here, with all due respect.

Your stance that those instances were overtuned is subjective. I just think they were pretty okay and doable with complete randoms (I did, most of the time), at least when you outgeared them. Starting off with easy content makes it obsolete later on. I want to fail some time, and if I make a mistake or not making proper use of my spells, I want to feel that. And I think you should have to group up with people in order to beat certain content.

Elitist would mean, I would need to feel better than others. I don't see at all, where you get that from, I already stated that I realize I'm not anywhere at the top. Are ambitions and challenges elitist for you? Good luck in life then. I'd be interested, where you would see me on the political spectrum...

I just think games should have "walls", where you have to bite yourself through, or at least need some effort for, including finding other people ("MMO"). I have never beaten Ahn'Qiraj, because we sucked too much. But that made the game better for me, because there always were still things to be seen. I don't want to see the same content I've just seen before a bit harder, because that ruins the game for me. This is one of the reasons why I don't play anymore. I don't complain, never did an I-quit-because-everything-sucks-post, I just do other things and allow myself an opinion here - and this is still too offensive for you.

I felt WotLK was not so great, and Cata was much better because of the content and my personal experience. Give me a way to have this opinion that doesn't offend you, and we'll go with that one.

Peace.

[Darththeo]

If I explicitly state something as my stance, because this was the situation of most fun for me, why do I have to "think out this stance"? I just stated what I like and why I like it. If you don't like it, fight for your stance. How is that elitist? You seem to confuse "elitist" with "things you can't do". I guess we just disagree here, with all due respect.

Your stance that those instances were overtuned is subjective. I just think they were pretty okay and doable with complete randoms (I did, most of the time), at least when you outgeared them. Starting off with easy content makes it obsolete later on. I want to fail some time, and if I make a mistake or not making proper use of my spells, I want to feel that. And I think you should have to group up with people in order to beat certain content.

Elitist would mean, I would need to feel better than others. I don't see at all, where you get that from, I already stated that I realize I'm not anywhere at the top. Are ambitions and challenges elitist for you? Good luck in life then. I'd be interested, where you would see me on the political spectrum...

I just think games should have "walls", where you have to bite yourself through, or at least need some effort for, including finding other people ("MMO"). I have never beaten Ahn'Qiraj, because we sucked too much. But that made the game better for me, because there always were still things to be seen. I don't want to see the same content I've just seen before a bit harder, because that ruins the game for me. This is one of the reasons why I don't play anymore. I don't complain, never did an I-quit-because-everything-sucks-post, I just do other things and allow myself an opinion here - and this is still too offensive for you.

I felt WotLK was not so great, and Cata was much better because of the content and my personal experience. Give me a way to have this opinion that doesn't offend you, and we'll go with that one.

Peace.

You need to think about your stance. You haven't. You entire argument is "I feel this." that's not an argument. And no, it isn't as subjective as yours when there were tons of nerfs to the dungeons that came out at launch.

Source: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/2011384#blog

Even your own argument "at least when you outgear them" ... it shouldn't be easly doable just at that level. When properly geared any pug groups should be able to clear if mechanics are followed ... Cata wasn't. Ozruk in Stonecore wasn't hard for me ... hell, I could Rogue tank him at the time if needed ... but I can see why other people struggled with him as the mechanics weren't straight forward and were counter intuitive for a lot of people.

Your opinion doesn't offend me outside of the fact in comes across as elitist or not thought out. You don't need to feel "better than me" to be elitist either ... you first comment "Well have you done this!" was elitist. It was dismissive of an opinion for a reason that you found personally harder.

[Ielenia]

still no source of that.

Keep living in your own world.

Hey, don't you dare doubt the Holy Word of the Divine Website WarcraftRealms.com. Their data is always precise and unerring, despite not having reliable updates in... god knows how long... with some servers even having even zero data...

[lorquist]

Honestly

Honestly! I'm so glad you've finally decided that truth is the best approach for online gaming forums. Put those days of trolling and pointless discussions about the "PC vs APPLE" debate behind you. Move forward into the world of HONEST click bait.

Classic - good
Burning - good
Wrath - good
Panda - good
Warlords - good
Legion - good

I can't wait to see what they come up with next! Because I really like to having fun with my WOW friends.

P.S. Druids rule.

[Al Gorefiend]

Why so hard on Cataclysm? It was just as good as MoP.

Did y'all forget what Cataclysm added??
- transmog
- LFR
- DMF revamp
- vanilla revamp

It gets a bad rep because DS sucked majorly. Well yeah Dragon soul was horrible, but the entire expac? It was tons of fun, the Dragonwrath race was the best time I ever raided.

TBC and WoD were my least favorite expacs, TBC was grindfest with nothing to do when you weren't raiding. WoD just plain bad nothing to do.

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Hey, don't you dare doubt the Holy Word of the Divine Website WarcraftRealms.com. Their data is always precise and unerring, despite not having reliable updates in... god knows how long... with some servers even having even zero data...

I legit lol'd.

Didn't you know there's only 10000 people on planet earth? Source: number of active MySpace accounts.

[Drusin]

- vanilla revamp

Sir plz, don't put that on the list like it's a good thing lol.

[Prime92]

From my perspective:
Wrath was The Best. 5/5
Cata - idk
MoP - quite good 4/5
WoD - managable, some stupid things including garrisons, garrison missions(gold inflation), overall 2.5/5
Legion - so far so fucking stupid. You can't put a single step without sliding on fucked up rng. Gear - rng, professions - rng, world pvp - nonexistant, traditional pvp - flattened, trimmed, unbalanced as fuck most of the time. Mythic level gear from dungeons and LFR - jesus fucking christ, give me a break. A whole raid cleared in less than 24h on Mythic - check. A single end-tier boss that got nerfed by 50% a week after first attempts - check. The biggest overflow of gold - yup. Best in slot trinket locked behind both a once a 2 months period chance+pray for TF - check. Trinkets responsible for 40% of your overall dps - check. And crapload of other completely retarded stuff. The only good things about Legion were M+ and The Nighthold raid. That's all i'm going to remember about this expansion, unless some breakthrough happens in 7.3. 1.5/5, not gonna recommend.

[Marrilaife]

Sir plz, don't put that on the list like it's a good thing lol.

Agreed, old world "remake" is one of the things I hate Cata for, removing some old, favourite questlines just because they were "long" or spanning across multiple zones, making "joke" zones and questlines way too common, and ruining some of my favourite places like Southshore, Ashenvale or Stonetalon.

Also Cataclysm brought some horrible (in my opinion) lore, like Tauren Paladins, Goblin Shamans, Worgen DK and so forth, plus the whole storyline was a Thrall-wank. In a similar manner how Legion is Illidan-wank. I'd much rather have lore "heroes" be painted with greys than black & white. Their actions debatable rather than shoved down our throats as acts of pure heroism or villainy. Trying to make Thrall or Illidan "our lord and saviour" just ruins the character for me. Really annoying when they do this.

[reimmi2016]

personally think legion is just as bad as wod, in the class design department. the most important part of WoW. pruning went too far, and "class fantasy" ruined hunters, which is my main, so i think of legion as a failure. If the base gameplay isn't fun, why bother?

[Coffeh]

I'm dreading it in that Legion is shit, but a lot of people are telling Blizz it's a good expansion, and the devs might get the wrong idea that they're on the right track. And so the next one will be even worse as they embrace failing game design.

[Eleccybubb]

I'm dreading it in that Legion is shit, but a lot of people are telling Blizz it's a good expansion, and the devs might get the wrong idea that they're on the right track. And so the next one will be even worse as they embrace failing game design.

How dare people say they enjoy something you don't!

Yeah I think some of Legions systems are garbage but at the end of the day that is my opinion.

[Hctaz]

If you're a collector Legion is the worst expansion ever...

Or a raider. It sucks to be a raider right now.

So being a collector it sucks.

Being a raider it sucks.

Who is it good for? People who enjoy mission tables and Diablo 3's loot system?

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How dare people say they enjoy something you don't!

Yeah I think some of Legions systems are garbage but at the end of the day that is my opinion.

I mean it's an opinion shared with multiple people for various reasons. It isn't just you.

Plus who's to say the people telling Blizzard Legion is good aren't people who joined the game in MoP and experienced WoD last expansion? I mean I skipped out on WoD and I think this expansion is utter shit for raiders. I heard WoD was a lot better for raiders. Sounds to me like I'd be complaining Legion isn't as good as WoD. Maybe the problem is that they swung the pendulum too far again. Raiding was the only thing good in WoD so they put a bunch of stuff in the game so people could have endless grinds which ended up making raiding suck.

[Eleccybubb]

Or a raider. It sucks to be a raider right now.

So being a collector it sucks.

Being a raider it sucks.

Who is it good for? People who enjoy mission tables and Diablo 3's loot system?

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I mean it's an opinion shared with multiple people for various reasons. It isn't just you.

Plus who's to say the people telling Blizzard Legion is good aren't people who joined the game in MoP and experienced WoD last expansion? I mean I skipped out on WoD and I think this expansion is utter shit for raiders. I heard WoD was a lot better for raiders. Sounds to me like I'd be complaining Legion isn't as good as WoD. Maybe the problem is that they swung the pendulum too far again. Raiding was the only thing good in WoD so they put a bunch of stuff in the game so people could have endless grinds which ended up making raiding suck.

And I agree. However Blizzard should listen to all forms of opinions. From both sides. There are people enjoying and disliking Legion and Blizzard should be getting all of their opinions on the matter.

[sarym13]

WoTLK was great
Cata was cool
MoP was greod (mix)
WoD gameplay wise sucked, but holy moly quacomolie did I make a shit ton of gold on the Garrison.
Legion is all around fun. I enjoyed the past expansions gameplay, just Legion introduced so much more. Mythic+, AP farming, WQ, I actually enjoy PvP now. I was never into it, and always got my ass handed to me as for I had no PvP gear, but now I love going into random BG's. So much to do.

[Al Gorefiend]

Class design worries me...very much, although i can't imagine it getting much worse than it already is.

As they say...when you are at the bottom you can't really go anywhere but up.

Why are people repeating this? I think the classes are the best they've ever been right now.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Well looking back Cata only sucked because they focused on the wrong content. WoD was horrible, but it can be assumed that was because they had all their focus on Legion.
It seems to be the case too, as they seem to have every single patch planned out to the day (all being 77 days apart.)

I think 8.0 will be much better than WoD or Cata, but really expect some HUGE shift yet again. Might be the removal of Mythic+, a massive change to gearing, or something else.

That is what I fear the most, because right now I look at Legion as 99 percent of a perfect expansion.

Any systems that change in 8.0 will likely not be for the immediate good in my eyes.

But as an aside I look at Wrath as one of the worst expansions, and certainly my least favorite.

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Why are people repeating this? I think the classes are the best they've ever been right now.

They are the most balanced they have ever been, but people don't like the way they play.
Which amuses me, because these are people who are mostly casuals so they have no reason to be worried about this sort of thing.

For me, the classes I play are at a peak in both fun and engagement. The ones I don't like, I don't play. No different from previous expansions.

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And I agree. However Blizzard should listen to all forms of opinions. From both sides. There are people enjoying and disliking Legion and Blizzard should be getting all of their opinions on the matter.

They do, but the problem is the people who dislike it have no real reasons and the things they want changed are very wild and trans formative changes.

This guy talking about it sucking to be a raider is a great example. Its objectively the BEST time to be a raider EVER, as you can ALWAYS get an upgrade from any single boss and the out-of-raid progression systems give you a way to improve your success without having to raid 5 days a week.

He probably DISLIKES these things, and there is no reason to do so.
Yet Blizzard will listen to him and strip things like titanforging and mythic+ from the game because they listen to people who complain instead of those who are happy.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm dreading it in that Legion is shit, but a lot of people are telling Blizz it's a good expansion, and the devs might get the wrong idea that they're on the right track. And so the next one will be even worse as they embrace failing game design.

Legion is objectively the most expansive expansion ever. They are on the right track, no opinions involved.

If you don't like it that's fine but if you think the whole expansion is bad because you don't like something in it then its time for you to go away and leave this conversation to people who actually play this game.

[Coffeh]

Legion is objectively the most expansive expansion ever. They are on the right track, no opinions involved.

If you don't like it that's fine but if you think the whole expansion is bad because you don't like something in it then its time for you to go away and leave this conversation to people who actually play this game.

Objectively the most expansive? Really? The smallest expansion world. World quests are leveling quests scaled to max level. Broken Shore was a disaster. Pvp is unplayable. Raids might be okay if that's your thing. But rng even ruins that.

What is good about Legion? Seriously.

Edit - Actually, just noticed in your post you said Wrath was the worst expansion. I really don't care to hear what you have to say about anything given that. So don't bother responding.

[Hctaz]

And I agree. However Blizzard should listen to all forms of opinions. From both sides. There are people enjoying and disliking Legion and Blizzard should be getting all of their opinions on the matter.

I mean I can agree with that to some extent but I simply don't think Blizzard should cater to each and every single view point. If, say, 20% of the playerbase really enjoys titanforging I think they should still alter it for those who don't.
Like I've seen a lot of testaments from people who enjoy the current titanforge system who only raid LFR. I understand it's fun for some people to have a Diablo 3 loot pinata style, but that isn't what raiding is about. Or at least it wasn't. It was about downing bosses to get the gear they dropped, not the gear within a massive range of quality. Now, what purpose does somebody who only does LFR and world quests have for a piece of 955 gear that they obtained from LFR? Even still, what purpose does a Mythic raider have with a 955 piece of gear when the raid drops 930s? Are we not supposed to be able to clear the raid in 930 gear? And because Blizzard expects us to be better geared than the baseline item level that the raid drops, they tune the bosses around having more than 930 item level which is simply not how a raid should be designed. No content should actually require you to overgear it's base drops in order to succeed.

Sadly, I think Blizzard is going to end up keeping the system as is simply because they would rather keep those hamsters running on the wheel than try to keep the mythic raiders playing the game. That means I'll inevitably quit when I get tired of grinding dungeons for loot.

I really miss the days of Wrath-MoP. At least when the excitement was limited to 5 item levels, it wasn't so bad.

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They do, but the problem is the people who dislike it have no real reasons and the things they want changed are very wild and trans formative changes.

This guy talking about it sucking to be a raider is a great example. Its objectively the BEST time to be a raider EVER, as you can ALWAYS get an upgrade from any single boss and the out-of-raid progression systems give you a way to improve your success without having to raid 5 days a week.

He probably DISLIKES these things, and there is no reason to do so.
Yet Blizzard will listen to him and strip things like titanforging and mythic+ from the game because they listen to people who complain instead of those who are happy.

It isn't the best time to be a raider at all. I have a reason to dislike titanforging. It's because that along with the mythic plus system gives the incentive to farm 24/7. Raiding in World of Warcraft used to be about showing up for your raid nights, clearing what you could, and getting whatever loot that dropped. That's all it was about. It was entirely self contained and you only needed to do the highest difficulty you could. Even when they opened up the loot lockouts to allow you to clear both heroic and normal in the same week, it wasn't as bad as it is now. Sure, you would clear both and do split runs and stuff, but as soon as those difficulties could no longer drop you any loot, you would stop. Even mythic (old heroic) would get to the point where you no longer needed any loot upgrades and would just keep extending the lockouts until you won. Now, heroic can ALWAYS drop an upgrade. You should ALWAYS be clearing heroic and reclearing mythic. That isn't fun. It isn't fun to keep clearing the same shit over and over again. Imagine trying to play Dark Souls but every week you had to restart the entire game but kept the loot you earned. It wouldn't be fun anymore.

Raiding wasn't about overgearing the content, it was about showing up, killing what you could, and progressing slowly. This whole "burn yourself out farming gear so you can overgear the entire instance the first week it's out" thing is just.. god awful. Worst expansion for a raider. The fun part is killing new bosses. When you can always get a 20 item level upgrade, it becomes less about killing the bosses and more about grinding the gear to overgear the bosses so you can kill them easier when you could have just gotten better and succeeded based on your skill alone.