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  1. #61
    To be fair, we hardly see any sort of vegetable farms or orchards in most zones with civilization. Highmountain, the Wandering Isle, Valley of the Four Winds, Elwynn, Westfall, WoD Shadowmoon, and a few others are notable, and that's it. Even in Suramar they did a good job showing what all is needed for the Nightborne to survive, and they only have a vineyard. Yet they have cakes all over the city made from, I assume, some sort of wheat and dairy products.

    No Troll zone or Orc zone (BC and WoD, as well) has a farm, aside from the pig farms in Durotar - at least as far as I can remember off hand. Then again, the vast majority of Orc (and a couple Troll) areas aren't exactly hospitable for vegetation.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atethecat View Post
    Do orcs and trolls grow crops? I remember one of the major problems within Durotar under Garrosh was a lack of resources.

    I feel like a lot of problems in Durotar would be solved if the orcs adopted widespread agriculture. I mean the tauren seem to have adopted it, from memory I'm pretty sure they grow some kind of wheat and maize.
    Well, Garrosh is not entirely wrong but he's a master of hyperboles as well. Yes, the Cataclysm caused real issues but before that it was nothing tragic, nor it was anymore by MoP times (according to Tides of War).

    With that out of the way, I doubt you can grow many crops in a rocky, dry desert like Durotar. Barrens ain't that better. You can probably grow enough stuff to feed animals and focus your efforts on livestock which is probably what orcs do. Orcs and Trolls strike me as the kind of races consuming industrial amounts of meat/fish. Like the Tauren they have an impressive muscular structure to maintain but unlike Tauren they probably also have a rather fast metabolism, given their capability to periodically increase their physical traits, be it an augmentation of overall power (Orcs) or speed and probably reflexes (Trolls). Being capable to sustain such things require massive amounts of proteins for sure.

    Darkspear apparently consume a lot of fish but the Echo Isles have no shortage of fauna, there's some boars around so they likely have some livestock too. Actually, between Echo Isles and Shadowprey Village, all the fishing may probably have trade purposes as well, given the near monopoly they probably got on that field, likely to get on the isles a periodical amount of specific supplies from Orgrimmar.
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  3. #63
    It's this type of thread that makes me yearn for larger and more complex zones showing the behind the scenes details upon which these civilizations are propped. "WoW 2" would feel much more alive and realistic. That'd be my hope anyway.

  4. #64
    Lets look at the cultures these races was based upon?

    Orcs - Old Orcs was based off the mongols and the Huns who lived off meat but newer Orcs was prolly based off the Zulu tribes from Africa a tribe that also lived off meat.

    Trolls - We all know these was based of the people from the Caribbean who lived off what they caught from the seas and its the reason troll tribes like to live by the ocean.

    Tauren - Obvious Native American who lived off what they got from the plains IE Buffalo they never really grew crops though some tribes did know how to grow Corn.

    Belfs - A magic race that has Turkish influence but being a magically race they dont need to slave in the fields when they can make food appear out of thin air.

    Forsaken - Ex - Human zombies who dont need to eat but still know how to grow food iam sure those skills aint lost and if need be they can do it again.

    Goblins - These are mercantile race who would much rather buy what they need than to grow or raise it. Iam not gonna go there with what you are thinking!
    Last edited by WhatAgain666; 2017-08-13 at 12:12 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atethecat View Post
    Do orcs and trolls grow crops? I remember one of the major problems within Durotar under Garrosh was a lack of resources.

    I feel like a lot of problems in Durotar would be solved if the orcs adopted widespread agriculture. I mean the tauren seem to have adopted it, from memory I'm pretty sure they grow some kind of wheat and maize.
    They do grow crops, well, did grow crops. After the event in Durotar, a lot of their farm land was ruined. Though, I believe as well that they follow the trade routes. Taurens, Elves, Trolls, Goblins - all bringing theirs to the trade. The Forsaken has more of a limited but they do trade out as well.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by trrujkgklg View Post
    Lets look at the cultures these races was based upon?

    Orcs - Old Orcs was based off the mongols and the Huns who lived off meat but newer Orcs was prolly based off the Zulu tribes from Africa a tribe that also lived off meat.
    I don't really see a connection between the orcs and the Zulu.

    To me at least, it seems like the current orc clans in lore are based off of different cultures. Not claiming Blizz had these in mind when they redesigned their clans for Warlords, but with the Frostwolves I get a Paleolithic vibe maybe with some Inuit or Saami influences. The Warsong seem to carry a Celtic vibe imo.

    The Burning Blade is definitely based off samurai, but Blizz has definitely diverged from just ripping off a stereotypical samurai in WC3 to giving them a unique aesthetic. I also get this Papua New Guinea tribal vibe from the Bleeding Hollow.

    Honestly though, I think orcs are basically just an amalgamation of various warrior/barbarian cultures throughout history.
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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Atethecat View Post
    I don't really see a connection between the orcs and the Zulu.

    To me at least, it seems like the current orc clans in lore are based off of different cultures. Not claiming Blizz had these in mind when they redesigned their clans for Warlords, but with the Frostwolves I get a Paleolithic vibe maybe with some Inuit or Saami influences. The Warsong seem to carry a Celtic vibe imo.

    The Burning Blade is definitely based off samurai, but Blizz has definitely diverged from just ripping off a stereotypical samurai in WC3 to giving them a unique aesthetic. I also get this Papua New Guinea tribal vibe from the Bleeding Hollow.

    Honestly though, I think orcs are basically just an amalgamation of various warrior/barbarian cultures throughout history.
    Well the old Horde and Orcs was based from the Golden Horde from the Mongols but what the Orcs became has Zulu influence basing from the fact they live in a desert plain and the architecture influence. Durator is basically Transvaal Province.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    With that out of the way, I doubt you can grow many crops in a rocky, dry desert like Durotar. Barrens ain't that better.
    eh it changes according to what Blizzard needs

    During cycle of hatred novel it was stated Durotar was ok for farming and had good supply of lumber being so close to the Hyjal foothills. This being a source of conflict with trade for Theramore.

    Then come Shattering, Durotar is stated to be a hard place to live even before the Elemental unrest and the Cataclysm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    Either way, the only case where they'd take up farming is, as you explained, to feed their allies or use for trade.
    any farming Forsaken do is for mushrooms and fungi.
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  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    A really stupid and minor counter point, but doesn't Saurfang or someone say specifically he doesn't eat pork

    Maybe it was just a joke, but meh.
    It was in regards to when they were the Horde on Draenor (I think it was on Draenor) and they were slaughtering the draenei people. The sounds the children made were squealing akin to pig squealing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by videotape View Post
    Even if they had a 100% pork diet, you still have to feed the pigs something.
    Feed the pigs other pigs.

    Easy.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    The forsaken like using the blight because it ensures the humans would leave. They expressed disappointment in south shores case that they wouldn't be able to live there now. I haven't seen anything about forsaken farms, but that would be a interesting .

    The forsaken turning lordaeron into a breadbasket. Since they don't need to eat at all. They export massive amounts of grain and become the hordes main food source, or if they were malicious they could also supply grain to the alliance and create a gap between people who want lordaeron, and people who wouldn't want to invade because the food would stop coming.

    End of wishful thinking/headcanon.

    But yea, forsaken want to restor blighted land to live there, they use the blight as a pesticide.
    Which shows how fucking twisted and demented they are, but I know there is no point arguing this with you as they could rape, pillage, plunder, and poison innocent newborns with their plague and you'd condone their actions like they had valid reasoning.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excellion View Post
    Which shows how fucking twisted and demented they are, but I know there is no point arguing this with you as they could rape, pillage, plunder, and poison innocent newborns with their plague and you'd condone their actions like they had valid reasoning.
    I mean you un-ironically said that Sylvanas is actually worse than Hitler, so I'm not going to stay up at night because you think the Forsaken are Evill!!!!!11


    but good to know you confuse efficiency with evil. If the forsaken killed people with rocks it would obviously be better, it has nothing to do with the blight effectively keeps the living and the dead in the ground or anything.
    Last edited by Friendlyimmolation; 2017-08-13 at 06:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excellion View Post
    You're right...least Hitler didn't try to bring back the people he killed from the dead to do his bidding.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    I mean you un-ironically said that Sylvanas is actually worse than Hitler, so I'm not going to stay up at night because you think the Forsaken are Evill!!!!!11


    but good to know you confuse efficiency with evil. If the forsaken killed people with rocks it would obviously be better, it has nothing to do with the blight effectively keeps the living and the dead in the ground or anything.
    I'm sorry you can't think of any better way to attack someone than chemical attacks...especially in a world with all kinds of magic and fancy technology the real world doesn't have.

    But keep on defending them...I know you will.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excellion View Post
    I'm sorry you can't think of any better way to attack someone than chemical attacks...especially in a world with all kinds of magic and fancy technology the real world doesn't have.

    But keep on defending them...I know you will.
    You're right, first the forsaken mages should have set their enemies on fire, and then warlocks should have ripped their souls out. Much less evil. Or they should have just taken a page from the gnomes and Radiation gassed the place, or did you forget the gnomes have chemical warfare too?

    I mean trying to say chemical weapons are bad and then turning around and not seeing the hilarious irony of thinking that magic is somehow less cruel is just hysterical.

    But seriously, make a new thread full of funny stuff like that and Ill comment there, this thread is about Agriculture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excellion View Post
    You're right...least Hitler didn't try to bring back the people he killed from the dead to do his bidding.

  15. #75
    One of the first quests you get as an orc is to harvest cactus apples and slaughter farm boars.

    Makes me wonder if one orc druid is responsible for all the success Durotar sees every Harvest Festival...

  16. #76
    I am fairly sure I've seen orc mills and the Shadowmoon were not nomads so at least they should have grains. Plus orcs make a lot of pies.
    Still most of them were nomads; the ones living in Nagrand had to be to avoid roaming ogre slavers and thus likely had grazing cattle or hunting local wildlife; Frostfire should be inhospitable to all but the toughest plants so I'd expect Frostwolf and Thunderlords to also mainly be carnivores. The Blackrock should have had some arable land for tough grains as well and the Bleeding Hollow and Shattered Hand were likely hunter gatherers considering they lived in forest and jungle. Plus the orc clans traded with the Draenei so they could be buying flour from them.

    So it is likely that the orcs at least had a limited knowledge of agriculture but they'd be unlikely to have complex knowledge. The orcs have access to the Southfury, a river that is draining Hyjal; it floods the plains so it most definitely has the capacity to keep the eastern banks of the Barrens and most of Durotar irrigated if only they had the engineering know-how to keep the river from flooding and direct it better into irrigation channels instead of letting it run rampant and wash away half of Durotar.

    Suramar pastries could be conjured goods btw. And yes, the biggest crime the Forsaken have commited is economic, they are sitting on the old breadbasket of humanity in Lordaeron and letting it grow fallow or even worse blighting it. Orc peons should immigrate to Lordaeron en masse and work the fields of Tirisfal and Hillsbrad under Forsaken farmers.

  17. #77
    The Insane Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I am fairly sure I've seen orc mills and the Shadowmoon were not nomads so at least they should have grains. Plus orcs make a lot of pies.
    Still most of them were nomads; the ones living in Nagrand had to be to avoid roaming ogre slavers and thus likely had grazing cattle or hunting local wildlife; Frostfire should be inhospitable to all but the toughest plants so I'd expect Frostwolf and Thunderlords to also mainly be carnivores. The Blackrock should have had some arable land for tough grains as well and the Bleeding Hollow and Shattered Hand were likely hunter gatherers considering they lived in forest and jungle. Plus the orc clans traded with the Draenei so they could be buying flour from them.

    So it is likely that the orcs at least had a limited knowledge of agriculture but they'd be unlikely to have complex knowledge. The orcs have access to the Southfury, a river that is draining Hyjal; it floods the plains so it most definitely has the capacity to keep the eastern banks of the Barrens and most of Durotar irrigated if only they had the engineering know-how to keep the river from flooding and direct it better into irrigation channels instead of letting it run rampant and wash away half of Durotar.

    Suramar pastries could be conjured goods btw. And yes, the biggest crime the Forsaken have commited is economic, they are sitting on the old breadbasket of humanity in Lordaeron and letting it grow fallow or even worse blighting it. Orc peons should immigrate to Lordaeron en masse and work the fields of Tirisfal and Hillsbrad under Forsaken farmers.
    The orcs did have a grasp of farming and irrigation, but the reason they were starving was that the farms were destroyed with the river flooding iirc. which only happened so severely because of catacylsm

    conjured goods offer little substance apparently, which may be why they had to continually consume nightwell essence.

    and yea, if the Horde starting farming Lordaeron they would quickly find themselves with control of easily the most food out there.
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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    conjured goods offer little substance apparently, which may be why they had to continually consume nightwell essence.
    Well the comment was that they have pastry everywhere. We don't really eat pastry for sustenance They might conjure it so they can have a little solid food (though I'd assume they are also fishing)

  19. #79
    The Insane Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well the comment was that they have pastry everywhere. We don't really eat pastry for sustenance They might conjure it so they can have a little solid food (though I'd assume they are also fishing)
    And we probably don't see all of Surumar, as big as it is, its still scaled down immensely for the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excellion View Post
    You're right...least Hitler didn't try to bring back the people he killed from the dead to do his bidding.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    So it is likely that the orcs at least had a limited knowledge of agriculture but they'd be unlikely to have complex knowledge. The orcs have access to the Southfury, a river that is draining Hyjal; it floods the plains so it most definitely has the capacity to keep the eastern banks of the Barrens and most of Durotar irrigated if only they had the engineering know-how to keep the river from flooding and direct it better into irrigation channels instead of letting it run rampant and wash away half of Durotar.
    To be fair, regardless of their knowledge in irrigation techniques and engeenering in general (which may not be stellar but not totally absent either) the Cataclysm is what caused the flooding of Southfury River, the presence or not of an irrigation system wouldn't have avoided it, the system itself would have been ruined.

    And yes, the biggest crime the Forsaken have commited is economic, they are sitting on the old breadbasket of humanity in Lordaeron and letting it grow fallow or even worse blighting it. Orc peons should immigrate to Lordaeron en masse and work the fields of Tirisfal and Hillsbrad under Forsaken farmers.
    I'm not entirely sure if Lordaeron lands are able to sustain proper agriculture anymore. Forsaken lands do not suffer a level of messing up like the Eastern Plaguelands but are definitely on a worse state than the recently cleansed Western Plaguelands. The place still reeks of death, according to an outsider like Garrosh. Fungi and mushrooms (unlike plants and much like animals) are heterotrophs, they feed themselves through volatile enzymes rather than absorbing anything from the soil. They could be the only form of pseudo-vegetation capable of growing into anything valuable within plague-infested lands.
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