Car ploughs through protesters at Charlottesville Alt-Right rally

[ArguesWithStrangers]

Affirmative action is needed because people like you won't hire black people.

If you'd make sure they had an equal chance in life you would work towards a future where affirmative action isn't needed.

So then you don't agree that people should be hired based on their personal merits and you desire regulatory regimes that require preference be given to certain races based on where your personal sympathies lie.....

You're going to have to choose one or the other man, because so far you've purported two positions that are mutually exclusive.

Oh and by the way, I'm not a racist. I work closely with black people who earned their own way in life and think paternalistic people like you are the ultimate racists for believing they don't have the ability to make it on their own.

If you're going to stay in the argument, try to have enough intellectual discipline to not constantly resort to demonizing your opponent. It's childish, and really just leaves you looking like a petulant fool. There are plenty of ways to disagree with someone without stooping so low.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

No, I think people should be hired 100% on personal merits.
But people don't get hired based on personal merits, people get hired because they are white. Or because they are a guy.

It's their side that has to change first.
Affirmative action is a reaction to racists not hiring black people, etc.

I think the concept, even if well intentioned, simply creates an unearned sense of entitlement on the part of the minorities, perpetuating a culture of aggrievement and dependency. Furthermore it provides fuel to the argument of the racists looking feel aggrieved themselves.

All that aside though, what specific metrics would you require before ending such a policy? They must be measurable, verifiable, achievable, and specific. If we're to accept preferential treatment for a person based on their race on the argument that it is merely a means of re-calibrating the scales after centuries of institutionalized racism, we have to recognize a point where the scale has been righted, and prevent it from tipping in the other direction. Now you may see that point being further off than I do, but that is not the debate we're having. We're debating whether or not it is racist to oppose affirmitive action and similar policies at all.

See that's the crux of problem with your way of thinking. We can't have a rational debate about the extent to which a certain policy is beneficial or harmful, because you don't allow for the possibility that your opponent is well-intentioned and rational. They have to be made into fire breathing deamons so you can go through life without subjecting your opinions to real scrutiny.

[provaporous]

Both extremists are bad. Who would have know?!

exactly!
10char

No, I think people should be hired 100% on personal merits.
But people don't get hired based on personal merits, people get hired because they are white. Or because they are a guy.

It's their side that has to change first.
Affirmative action is a reaction to racists not hiring black people, etc.

There are so few respectable studies that show a real "racist" or "sexist" bias exists, plus we already have laws to protect against discriminatory hiring practices, It is not ethical to gimp your own company to hire lesser employees just because they have a certain color of skin, whoever does the best work deserves the job, and if you feel like you were passed up for a lesser candidate because of your color of skin, and can prove it, sue the shit out of them.

Part of the problem is companies are so scared of even having an accusation thrown at them and then having the media and SJW's hound them they bend over backwards to appease them.