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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    It's good to see all this infighting on the left, hopefully the true Democrats will break off and form a party that isn't hell bent on identity politics.
    Maybe when the right stops trying to block equal rights for LGBT community, doesn't want to understand the social and economical issues that hurt inner city black communities and even stop trying to restrict voting rights for blacks and latinos because fear they might vote Democrat,then maybe just maybe the identity politics will go away.

  2. #22
    i·den·ti·ty pol·i·tics

    noun

    a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.


    I've heard about identity politics but didn't know what it was so I looked it up. Do we even need this phrase?

    A lot of conservative blacks voted for Obama because he was black, is that surprising? Hillary didn't get as much of the female vote as I thought she would which surprised me. Sometimes identity politics works and sometimes it doesn't?

    I think we should take each case individually if we want to make sense of things.
    .

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  3. #23
    I agree to some extent.

    I think identity politics is a distraction from the greater issue - the social class disparity, and while there is some overlap there's plenty that is not related to skin color or gender. I'm more of a "classical" left-winger I suppose in that sense, if we are to generalize (not that identity politics is exclusive to the left).

    I also think identity politics can cause more division, as the author alludes to. I think we should just identify ourselves as human beings - all of us, full stop. We're all in this together.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    Isn't an anti-SJW still a SJW
    Yep, one that takes it to extremes.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Maybe when the right stops trying to block equal rights for LGBT community, doesn't want to understand the social and economical issues that hurt inner city black communities and even stop trying to restrict voting rights for blacks and latinos because fear they might vote Democrat,then maybe just maybe the identity politics will go away.
    I need to ask, what ways are they trying to restrict voting rights for blacks and latinos?
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    I need to ask, what ways are they trying to restrict voting rights for blacks and latinos?
    If you're truly interested just look into the supreme court cases where republicans were denied redrawing districts specifically because of this.

    Or fuck... just look up some of the quotes by those politicians lol. There's also a few videos on issues like this. When it comes to splitting up the districts or redrawing them where suddenly an area that's mostly democratic and doesn't have a huge huge majority of white suddenly bows down to the sway of the right whites despite their numbers being less once districts were redrawn.

    Hell or look into the one guy who was surely to be elected but then they redrew maps putting him in another district causing him to lose the election because well... now he's not "from" the area he was from before.

  7. #27
    Immortal Zandalarian Paladin's Avatar
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    Identity politics is what made many people who consider themselves as anti-authoritarian leftists flip a table and just not vote during the 2016 elections.

    I'm not American, I'm Canadian, but I consider myself an anti-authoritarian leftist. I despise everything related to identity politics - how it seems to genuinely promote inverted racism and outright bullying of anyone who dares disagree with it.

    Identity politics prevents the very basic discussion of ideas, to debate factual empirical evidence in the name of the greater moral, not unlike a certain religious group in the 1900s.

    If you really want to know the single biggest element that led to the demise of Democrats in 2016, it's this one. It's not the only one, but it's the biggest.

    Without identity politics, the alt-right is nothing. Neo-Nazis would crumble under their own idiocy. BLM and Antifa would look like spoiled children.

    Anyway, great article. Thanks for sharing.
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    Political left, right similarly motivated to avoid rival views
    [...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..

  8. #28
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Valuing identity and demographics is a problem on both sides. It's pure drama and ignores the only important concept, the merit of a policy idea.

  9. #29
    The alt-right complains about "leftists" and how they play identity politics.

    In the meantime, there's an alt-right rally bashing all sorts of minority races and groups across the road....

    They should really just admit they want racism and bigotry to be cool instead of playing the victim of how they are oppressed and prevented from being the bad guy.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage BloodElf4Life View Post
    If you really want to know the single biggest element that led to the demise of Democrats in 2016, it's this one. It's not the only one, but it's the biggest.
    And in this statement you've demonstrated you know pretty much fuck all about American political history in the last decade. *thumbs up*

    Complaining about "identity politics" is concern trolling from the right wing. It's not a legitimate complaint because every political movement has incorporated identity politics since forever.

    Worse, complaining about "identity politics" is effectively saying that the only issues worth discussing in the political scene are those which "I" value, "I' invariably meaning white dudes in the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    Isn't an anti-SJW still a SJW
    In the way they act yes, except the anti-SJW is opposed to social justice rather than supporting it.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    And in this statement you've demonstrated you know pretty much fuck all about American political history in the last decade. *thumbs up*

    Complaining about "identity politics" is concern trolling from the right wing. It's not a legitimate complaint because every political movement has incorporated identity politics since forever.

    Worse, complaining about "identity politics" is effectively saying that the only issues worth discussing in the political scene are those which "I" value, "I' invariably meaning white dudes in the US.
    Identity politics gave rize to nazism. To value identity is one thing, to run your political party on it is another. To discriminate based on it is even worse.

    I don't give a damn what the right do. They're hypocrites if they complain about it, considering they've been elected in part because of it. That doesn't mean I'll accept it from a party that worked so damned hard to get rid of it.

    Democrats gave a dream where skin color, sexuality, gender had no meaning. We were just human beings, working together to make things better. They want to shit on this and make it about X is worse than Y? Great, you're bigots too!
    Google Diversity Memo
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    Political left, right similarly motivated to avoid rival views
    [...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage BloodElf4Life View Post
    Identity politics gave rize to nazism. To value identity is one thing, to run your political party on it is another. To discriminate based on it is even worse.
    Civil rights is "identity politics", apparently.

    I don't give a damn what the right do. They're hypocrites if they complain about it, considering they've been elected in part because of it. That doesn't mean I'll accept it from a party that worked so damned hard to get rid of it.

    Democrats gave a dream where skin color, sexuality, gender had no meaning. We were just human beings, working together to make things better. They want to shit on this and make it about X is worse than Y? Great, you're bigots too!
    Said "dream" was forwarded by wealthy white people in that oh-so very 90's belief that America had moved past racism and bigotry and that if we stopped making an issue of it, it would go away. Well, it didn't, because turns out doing nothing about it causes the problem to only boil under the surface.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    If you're truly interested just look into the supreme court cases where republicans were denied redrawing districts specifically because of this.

    Or fuck... just look up some of the quotes by those politicians lol. There's also a few videos on issues like this. When it comes to splitting up the districts or redrawing them where suddenly an area that's mostly democratic and doesn't have a huge huge majority of white suddenly bows down to the sway of the right whites despite their numbers being less once districts were redrawn.

    Hell or look into the one guy who was surely to be elected but then they redrew maps putting him in another district causing him to lose the election because well... now he's not "from" the area he was from before.
    That is pretty shitty behaviour.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    It's not a legitimate complaint because every political movement has incorporated identity politics since forever.
    This isn't a pro-identity politics argument. If it was it would be like saying a parasite has been with an animal for all its life therefore it should not be removed.
    Last edited by PC2; 2017-08-13 at 06:53 PM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    This isn't a pro-identity politics argument. If it was it would be like saying a parasite has been with an animal for all it's life therefore it should not be removed.
    No, it's a "identity politics are inherent to human politics" argument. Get over yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Civil rights is "identity politics", apparently.



    Said "dream" was forwarded by wealthy white people in that oh-so very 90's belief that America had moved past racism and bigotry and that if we stopped making an issue of it, it would go away. Well, it didn't, because turns out doing nothing about it causes the problem to only boil under the surface.
    These wealthy white people are the reasons we're not living in huts. You know what wealthy africans do? They take the money and let their people die of famine.

    You want to accuse white people of the state of the world? Not only is that racist in itself, it expose the shallowness of your argument. These white people have welcomed people from all around the world to give them a better chance at life. You know the percentage of white people in the US? 60%. And it's declining. Why? Because white people want to make it as "the people". Not white, not black, not green, not whatever the hell some people want to make it.

    So you want to be a racist, go ahead, keep burning the party to the ground and allow Trump and his buffoons to keep the ball running.

    Jesus.
    Google Diversity Memo
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    Political left, right similarly motivated to avoid rival views
    [...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    No, it's a "identity politics are inherent to human politics" argument. Get over yourself.
    There is no proof that it is fundamentally inherent to human politics, but I agree that it historically has been. Identity politics is an idea and like other bad ideas it can be rejected for good ideas, in this case objective politics.
    Last edited by PC2; 2017-08-13 at 06:06 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    And in this statement you've demonstrated you know pretty much fuck all about American political history in the last decade. *thumbs up*

    Complaining about "identity politics" is concern trolling from the right wing. It's not a legitimate complaint because every political movement has incorporated identity politics since forever.

    Worse, complaining about "identity politics" is effectively saying that the only issues worth discussing in the political scene are those which "I" value, "I' invariably meaning white dudes in the US.
    Why do you SJW types keep bringing up "the right" in this thread?

    This article has legit nothing to do with "the right".

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Article:
    HOW IDENTITY BECAME A WEAPON AGAINST THE LEFT

    I am pretty anti-SJW, so I disagree with a lot of the policies the author of this article supports, though not all... However, I agree with her sentiments on the topic of identity politics. She mainly focuses on the harm it causes progressives, but as far as I am concerned it harms everyone, especially us in the center who don't care for the fringe right or the fringe left, since the very act of not supporting ultra progressive positions is usually met with accusations of bigotry.

    What is your opinion on identity politics and do you agree or disagree with the author?

    ===============
    Gonna put the TL;DR up top since this article was long as fudge:
    Basically the author, Briahna Joy Gray, a 'progressive leftist' herself, is criticizing the left's focus on identity politics. She argues making everything about identity politics has come full circle and is harming the progressive cause. She uses the examples of Kamala Harris and Corey Booker, and how many progressives dismiss all criticism of them (including, but especially criticism from the left itself) as racist and sexist, despite the policies they support (as far as she is concerned) being harmful to progressive causes (their corporate/banking connections/funding, their centrist platforms, etc.). She examines how this played out in the Clinton versus Sanders fight and how many progressives offhandedly dismissed all criticism of Hillary as sexism/misogyny, despite Clinton having very questionable positions/corporate support with regard to the goals of the progressive cause, while those same progressives who blindly defended Hillary because she was a woman offhandedly dismissed Bernie Sanders as a white male who couldn't possibly speak for blacks/women, despite his extremely progressive platform and history of supporting progressive causes. An example of this being how the left itself created the pejorative "Bernie Bro" to describe white males supporting Sanders as sexists and only doing so because Bernie was a man. (When both I and the author say progressives, mind you, we aren't speaking of all progressives in general, just the ones doing what is described in the example.)

    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    I am pretty anti-SJW, so I disagree with a lot of the policies the author of this article supports, though not all...

    This right here is why everything else after I don't trust and need not bother reading even though I did. I can also say it is the same horseshit peddled by fence sitters and lazy individuals who are often times more guilty than those they point fingers at.

    Ignorance was the blame here, not identity politics, and this notion that some how the Alt-Right or BernieBros who both in equal measure thought to burn this fucking country down and ushered this, aren't going to moonwalk away from this shit and pin it on Hillary or SJWs

    Honestly don't know who wrote this bullshit, specifically but seems like some Alt-Left bullshit typically peddled out of The Young Turks and Alt Center Neo Nazi's Like Michael Tracey.
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