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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by foofoocuddlypoopz View Post
    The republicans have never stopped using it... The more they used it the more support they get. We get collective amnesia every 8 years round these parts anyone who thought Obama lite would've been unrecoverable wasn't safe able. This shit happened with Kerry as well it cost us 100,000 of American lives and gave us one of the most incompetent administration ever.
    Of course they'll win at that game, they're still a majority and they'll be for the next few decades. That's also part of why the Democrats have to stop being idiots and stop pushing for a divise tactic. They won't win under that banner, humanity won't win with that division and Republicans don't give a shit so long that they get their chair and money for picking their nose and looking down on regular human beings.
    Google Diversity Memo
    Learn to use critical thinking: https://youtu.be/J5A5o9I7rnA

    Political left, right similarly motivated to avoid rival views
    [...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..

  2. #122

    Lightbulb

    Vote 3rd party if you want to see a wrench in the gears. I bet that'll show some amazing dexterity from the few politicians who aren't just seat warmers and are actually working towards a brighter future for everyone.

    Sometimes you wanna just forget about politics and remind yourself and whoever you're arguing with all the things you've got in common and what a better future looks like to the both of you. Beautiful thing about rights is that they cover everyone. Irregardless of you liking it or not. Play nice and be respectful.
    Push to ratify your treaties! People who argue UN is useless fail to understand it's useless because you let it be. If your governments don't ratify the treaties then they simply don't apply to your fellow citizens in your part of the world. This is why US is behind when it comes to basic rights for children and minorities in general. Ironic with the US being a country of minorities.

    You're not focused on improving rather than wallowing in your own misery playing the finger game while greedy people are only interested in keeping status quo to take advantage of the chaos while only being in it for themselves and theirs.
    If you know the candle is fire, then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  3. #123
    Banned Rennadrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    What? Hillary was the best person they could pick. Only a sexist that doesn't think women can be President would think that.
    It had absolutely fuck all to do with Clinton being a woman and everything to do with her being a less than desirable individual and a poor leader. Her policies, not to mention shady deals and a shady past made her an easy target for the GOP to attack, Sanders would have been far more difficult to take down and they would have had a consistent voter base. Instead, there were no doubt a lot of people who voted Trump to spite the Democrats for not selecting Sanders.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage BloodElf4Life View Post
    Of course they'll win at that game, they're still a majority and they'll be for the next few decades. That's also part of why the Democrats have to stop being idiots and stop pushing for a divise tactic. They won't win under that banner, humanity won't win with that division and Republicans don't give a shit so long that they get their chair and money for picking their nose and looking down on regular human beings.
    You just said republican won because they stopped... Republicans aren't the majority there are more democratic voters than republican voters. They just show up regardless of circumstance and honestly have no spines. When the left saw Hillary corruption they said no but republicans won't return the fair and as usual we'll all learn a lesson at the end. Identity politics aren't going away because all demographics weren't treated equal and never we'll be until genetic engineering is a thing anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking moron.
    Last edited by foofoocuddlypoopz; 2017-08-14 at 04:55 AM.
    Everyone fights in the console wars! We don't like ours, but we sure hate yours! Its Xbox One versus Ps4! Let the bodies hit the floor! Let's throw down, come at me bro! Ill fuck you up, and your mom's a ho. Don't be a fag and blame the lag; These guns aren't just for show!

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    Vote 3rd party if you want to give Trump a second term.
    Fixed that for you. This is why Jill Stein gets a seat at the big table with Flynn and Putin.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by foofoocuddlypoopz View Post
    You just said republican won because they stopped... Republicans aren't the majority there are more democratic voters than republican voters. They just show up regardless of circumstance and honestly have no spines. When the left saw Hillary corruption they said no but republicans won't return the fair and as usual we'll all learn a lesson at the end. Identity politics aren't going away because all demographics weren't treated equal and never we'll be until genetic engineering is a thing anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking moron.
    I did not say that. They've lost because of it. Then the Dems started using it. Then the Dems lost. Republicans win at being the worse and they'll get away with it. Not the Dems. Also, polls are shit. Look at google search, look at the real numbers that happen when people are honest. Trump won and it's easy to witness it if you pull your head out of the Democrat's echo chamber - take a look at the amazing book from NYT writer Seth Stephens-Davidowitz "Everybody Lies" and you'll understand a lot more about what happens in people's collective heads.

    If you want to play identity politics from both sides, the Republicans will win, at the very least until the amount of white % goes lower than 50%. The be frank, I'm persuaded that the Democrats lost because they relied too much on conventional data and were too cocky to realize it was a bad idea. The fact that they keep pushing it now just seems like one last wail of desperation, mixed with hurt ego and the fact that, just like the Republicans, they've tasted the identity politics kool-aid.
    Google Diversity Memo
    Learn to use critical thinking: https://youtu.be/J5A5o9I7rnA

    Political left, right similarly motivated to avoid rival views
    [...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage BloodElf4Life View Post
    You're right. Do you think they may have overestimated the amount of "whites" who bought up into the whole privileged narrative? The polls, the public platforms all seemed to agree that a lot of people agreed with the privileged narrative.

    For a while, America was racist and everyone agreed it was! (with an obvious drop of irony)

    The reason why the political ecosystem turned toward identity politics is simple. It's the easiest way to grab an instant presidency, house, and congress without relying on actual content. It's populism at its worse because as soon as you secure a group based on ethnicity, you'll always have a majority with that group.

    So this leads to another part of the problem. Why are we accepting this? Is it because it's buying into the very same nazism ideal that some people are better than other (whether because you're a white, golden-haired blue-eyed boy or because you're an afro-American from Detroit and whites should check their privileges)? The need to put a part of society under your boot just for the sport of it?

    Why do people group by ethnicity? Because of a sense of belonging? But why do people feel like they only belong with people who looks like them? Afro-Americans shouldn't fear being laughed at as niggers and whites shouldn't fear being laughed at as privileged brats. Color shouldn't even be a problem. They're physical traits, not the sum of what a person can achieve. Culture is not set in stone at birth, there's no reason to not share and receive it.

    It seems to me that identity politics insulate groups and prevent mixing them up as much as possible, just because it secures a spot to the same people in congress/house/white house. So identity politics has decided to turn toward groups and treat individuals as to what group they belong to, rather than what the individual is actually worth. It seems like meritocracy and identity politics are fundamentally opposed.
    Because Humans are tribal by nature IMHO. We buy into it because Identity and loyalty to the group is powerful. There is also the tricky issue of negotiating a melting pot among unequal groups.

    One thing I usually say about the Alt-Right and Ethno-States that they talk about is that it is mislabeled. The Alt-Right wants an explicitly RACIAL state. I.E. For them you must "be white," in both manners, customs, culture, and blood. The Alt-Lite, and the Civic Nationalists and likely even Conservatives like most of the GOP all the way to the Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer and some small sliver of Democrats and Liberals is IMHO not much different. Most Civic Nationalists types still insist on a national culture and language that is specific to one ethnicity of European, English people specifically. The problem of the "Lets come together and melting pot and become one people" is that in the end that usually means many people becoming like one especially powerful constituent part. There is still a latent racism within it, even if it can't be helped. Thus I'd say the Alt-Right are Racial Nationalists where nearly every Conservative and even many Liberals are Ethnic Nationalists. For them you can be whatever skin color of Human, but you still have to "Act White."

    Identity politics will remain powerful because ....

    A) Humans tend to schism into separate groups no matter what.

    B) In a multicultural/ethnic/racial(?) differences and group allegiance will likely overcome other allegiances such as to class, gender, ect.

    C) Even forming a "Melting Pot" comes with obvious undertones of racism, as is the case in America where assimilationist policies are more aptly cultural annihilation for some, into the culture and language of another.

    Meritocracy IMHO will never fully function or work. It is a biological fact at this point that people will do whatever it takes to help give their kids an edge. Nepotism, and favoring your immediate kin over others, even if more qualified is just simple instinct.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by foofoocuddlypoopz View Post
    You just said republican won because they stopped... Republicans aren't the majority there are more democratic voters than republican voters. They just show up regardless of circumstance and honestly have no spines. When the left saw Hillary corruption they said no but republicans won't return the fair and as usual we'll all learn a lesson at the end. Identity politics aren't going away because all demographics weren't treated equal and never we'll be until genetic engineering is a thing anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking moron.
    Democrats make the mistake of being clustered in two states.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Man View Post
    Fixed that for you. This is why Jill Stein gets a seat at the big table with Flynn and Putin.
    Lovely defeatist attitude! Exactly why you have the government you deserve.
    If you know the candle is fire, then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  9. #129
    Legendary! Video Games's Avatar
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    I think people care too much where they are on the political spectrum, or more accurately, where their opponents are. I refuse to take part in it and yet I'm still labeled as a right winger because I don't like today's pc culture. I can't wait for this shit to end.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage BloodElf4Life View Post
    I did not say that. They've lost because of it. Then the Dems started using it. Then the Dems lost. Republicans win at being the worse and they'll get away with it. Not the Dems. Also, polls are shit. Look at google search, look at the real numbers that happen when people are honest. Trump won and it's easy to witness it if you pull your head out of the Democrat's echo chamber - take a look at the amazing book from NYT writer Seth Stephens-Davidowitz "Everybody Lies" and you'll understand a lot more about what happens in people's collective heads.

    If you want to play identity politics from both sides, the Republicans will win, at the very least until the amount of white % goes lower than 50%. The be frank, I'm persuaded that the Democrats lost because they relied too much on conventional data and were too cocky to realize it was a bad idea. The fact that they keep pushing it now just seems like one last wail of desperation, mixed with hurt ego and the fact that, just like the Republicans, they've tasted the identity politics kool-aid.
    Republicans have never been punished for using identity politics... Trump won because democrats didn't show up not because of republican turn out. The electoral college also doesn't help the United States election isn't about number of votes but where the votes are located.
    Everyone fights in the console wars! We don't like ours, but we sure hate yours! Its Xbox One versus Ps4! Let the bodies hit the floor! Let's throw down, come at me bro! Ill fuck you up, and your mom's a ho. Don't be a fag and blame the lag; These guns aren't just for show!

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    There seems to be this prevailing idea that any and all criticism of identity politics is a right wing phenomenon. Whilst public criticism from the left is rare (there are consequences for anyone on the left who do criticise it), there is nothing inherently right wing about criticising it. There are those on the left (I include myself in this) who agree with many of the points made by proponents of identity politics, but view it as a poor tool to get us to where we want to go, and it ends up bring a force for division as opposed for unity. The cult like attitudes by some who are deep into identity politics prevent them from having any kind of reasonable discussion about their ideas, and just leap straight to "BIGOT!". I fear that it is becoming an alienating force on the left.
    Thank you for saying what I couldn't quite articulate until now. I consider myself pretty damn liberal on most issues, but I don't buy into this identity politics nonsense. I don't see what your identity is supposed to tell me. I'd rather know the individual instead of the label. Yet I get called right wing or having bought into right wing whining, while simultaneously downplaying the left's ridiculousness to severe degree.

  12. #132
    Identity politics have been used since the beginning of politics for every purpose politically related, to say that whats going on now is new would be silly. The big reason most people don't play the identity politics game is because its a useful weapon and once your enemy has it you can't put it away. The US spent the last 150 years teaching white people not to vote along racial lines, then after watching everyone else do it for long enough it came back.

    It really doesn't lend a lot of good philosophical arguments to vote basically to support your race. From a pragmatic standpoint though, if everyone else is going to use a tactic you refuse to that makes you an idiot.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Right holds giant rally with the KKK, alt-right, and nazis carrying signs and chanting anti-jewish or anti-other minority slogans.
    Left calls them racists.
    Right bitches about identity politics.

    That's seems to be the usual gist of things.
    As someone who reads The_Donald daily, nobody there knew about this rally happening, or at least it never made the front page, and that says something (Anytime a rally is happening there are several streams and links to sign up) This screams false flag to me IMO.


    This is not a "right" rally - if was a legit rally to begin with. The State decided not to honor their permit to hold their rally and then ordered the police to stand down after pushing them into Antifa. What did they expect to happen?

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    I think people care too much where they are on the political spectrum, or more accurately, where their opponents are. I refuse to take part in it and yet I'm still labeled as a right winger because I don't like today's pc culture. I can't wait for this shit to end.
    And this is why I've given up on society and gone full hikki since the election. Getting absolutely tired of being labeled a alt-righter/white nationalist/various other buzzwords because I'm not in ideological lockstep with the left.

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  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    Lovely defeatist attitude! Exactly why you have the government you deserve.
    It has nothing to do with attitude; it's more to do with the single-vote FPTP system. If we could even just rank choices, lots of people would feel more comfortable voting third party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Democrats make the mistake of being clustered in two states.
    We do it just so we can whine about the Electoral College. We're kind of stupid and self-defeating in that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by pionock View Post
    Thank you for saying what I couldn't quite articulate until now. I consider myself pretty damn liberal on most issues, but I don't buy into this identity politics nonsense. I don't see what your identity is supposed to tell me. I'd rather know the individual instead of the label. Yet I get called right wing or having bought into right wing whining, while simultaneously downplaying the left's ridiculousness to severe degree.
    And as we can see in this story, it's the center/center-left calling the progressive left racists and sexists. This "identity politics" game doesn't have much to do with how "far" left you are.

  16. #136
    Right winger" Man the left always gives everyone labels and cares too much about race i OBVIOUSLY DONT"
    Same right winger: " IF YOU wanna know the cause of our problems, read my favorite book THE BELL CURVE!!!"

    Thats called hypocrisy

  17. #137
    I'm of the opinion that identity politics is nine times out of ten just racism and I'll be thrilled when we can all call it out for what it is.
    Moderator for Heroes of the Storm
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  18. #138
    Most "red meat" stuff is just to make the plebs crazy. The only real issues are economic and neither side talks about that with any seriousness as they are basically on the same side.

    Sometimes I think we just need to wait out a group of bigoted idiots that will eventually die off through old age.

    The more likely reality is that many, many people are genuinely too stupid to do the right things in their own interest and will be fooled by these sorts of antics forever. The right in particular banks on this policy. Hatred for pretended enemies can always be made to divide people.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Article:
    HOW IDENTITY BECAME A WEAPON AGAINST THE LEFT


    ===============
    Gonna put the TL;DR up top since this article was long as fudge:
    Basically the author, Briahna Joy Gray, a 'progressive leftist' herself, is criticizing the left's focus on identity politics. She argues making everything about identity politics has come full circle and is harming the progressive cause. She uses the examples of Kamala Harris and Corey Booker, and how many progressives dismiss all criticism of them (including, but especially criticism from the left itself) as racist and sexist, despite the policies they support (as far as she is concerned) being harmful to progressive causes (their corporate/banking connections/funding, their centrist platforms, etc.). She examines how this played out in the Clinton versus Sanders fight and how many progressives offhandedly dismissed all criticism of Hillary as sexism/misogyny, despite Clinton having very questionable positions/corporate support with regard to the goals of the progressive cause, while those same progressives who blindly defended Hillary because she was a woman offhandedly dismissed Bernie Sanders as a white male who couldn't possibly speak for blacks/women, despite his extremely progressive platform and history of supporting progressive causes. An example of this being how the left itself created the pejorative "Bernie Bro" to describe white males supporting Sanders as sexists and only doing so because Bernie was a man. (When both I and the author say progressives, mind you, we aren't speaking of all progressives in general, just the ones doing what is described in the example.)
    Oh you done it now, you spoke the truth and the extreme left doesn't like the truth.

    Identity politics is a cancer, I find a lot of people who call others sexist or racist are usually the ones being sexist and racist.

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