The Two Things That Are Making Legion Miserable for me

**Artunias** · 2017-08-14, 04:00 PM

TLDR.

1. Throughput Legendaries
2. Titanforging

Throughput Legendaries

In my opinion this is the worst idea, and most toxic system that has ever existed in the history of World of Warcraft. There are a few main points that make it absolutely miserable.

1. There are simply just way too fucking many in the game, and if you're playing casually it still takes about 3-4 weeks to get one.
2. This makes it almost impossible to get legendaries across multiple specs

a) This is even worse on alts or players who are trying to return to the game

3. It locks way too much gear. Between legendaries and some classes being forced to wear 6 tier pieces, that's half of your character that is locked to a specific item.

a)This automatically invalidates almost half of the gear in the entire game, combined with a good portion of the gear being bad in the remaining slots because of how imbalanced secondary stats are for many specs
b) SO MUCH LOOT IS WASTED/DISENCHANTED, it FeelsRealBadMan

4. Many of the utility legendaries are actually pretty cool and/or fun, but no one will ever use those over a 5-8% dps increase provided by a throughput legendary. It's very simple, no one will ever do that in any raiding setting. Not once, not ever. Prydaz is the only exception in high end progression cases.

Titanforging

This one is pretty simple. I like the idea of the system for the most part, but like many things in Legion it just takes the RNG way too damn far. This is perhaps more personal so I will just list the two things that I think would make the system much more enjoyable for me. Instead of it feeling like you can get upgrades, even as a mythic raider, by helping your friends or just doing old content. It's more devolved into feeling like YOU'RE FORCED to do everything, because the Titanforging doesn't seem uncommon.

1. Titanforging is capped at the base mythic item level, 930 in the example of ToS

a) This is still A TON of room for players to be rewarded, even your mythic player has those couple of slots they could get, but it greatly reduces the need to constantly do everything for upgrades

2. Mythic loot can warforge at +5/10, and Mythic bosses (only Mythic bosses) drop a currency similar to old badges that will also allow you to upgrade to that cap if you don't get lucky. Let your +15 weekly M+ item also fall in this category (or whatever the max level reward is at the time)

a) Mythic raiding needs to be more rewarding for the effort than it currently is. I think I can speak for most mythic players in that not being able to combat the loot RNG in Legion at all is VERY frustrating

**Nyel** · 2017-08-14, 04:07 PM

You just could summarize both to "RNG factor" of Legion. It's by far the worst part of the expansion and hopefully does not carry over into the next one.

**Nevcairiel** · 2017-08-14, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Artunias

It's more devolved into feeling like YOU'RE FORCED to do everything

No system in the world can protect you from hurting yourself or the community to be full of shitbags.
I for one value the ability to help out guildies on runs and still have a chance to be rewarded.

For most people I can only recommend to get out of the toxic circle of players you seem to be in that makes you want to do these things.

**Icecat** · 2017-08-14, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Nyel

You just could summarize both to "RNG factor" of Legion. It's by far the worst part of the expansion and hopefully does not carry over into the next one.

I haven't seen anything from the developers that would suggest (or give me faith) that the RNG systems from Legion won't return in the next expansion. The new expansion will most likely just have new Legendaries as well. Wouldn't Blizzard figure that it'd be a little strange for Legion to be the only expansion with like fifty Legendaries?

**DeicideUH** · 2017-08-14, 04:15 PM

The only things I really dislike in Legion are:

- Follower missions. I'm tired of those. And I feel forced to log into every single alt before I start to really play just to keep the missions going. I like having a base to develop, but I hope this aspect of it goes away next expansion and the HQ is more cosmetic/lore/story-oriented than gameplay-heavy.
- AP Grind. Another thing that I find really boring. However, I think Blizzard will keep some variation of it next expansion since it keeps players playing.
- Legendaries. Blizzard should just remove them and add two more talents rows. Legendaries are just extra talents that are acquired throught RNG and then you need extra gear to swap them.

Titanforges does not bother me at all. I actually like it.

**Nyel** · 2017-08-14, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Icecat

I haven't seen anything from the developers that would suggest (or give me faith) that the RNG systems from Legion won't return in the next expansion. The new expansion will most likely just have new Legendaries as well. Wouldn't Blizzard figure that it'd be a little strange for Legion to be the only expansion with like fifty Legendaries?

I love the legendaries. I hate how we acquire them. I think they've done a great job with creating nice tools of altering your character with items but the rng factor and no way to somehow counter it make the entire legendary system awful. They can keep it for xpac 7 but improve it.

**Jaylock** · 2017-08-14, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Artunias

TLDR.

1. Throughput Legendaries
2. Titanforging

Throughput Legendaries

In my opinion this is the worst idea, and most toxic system that has ever existed in the history of World of Warcraft. There are a few main points that make it absolutely miserable.

3. It locks way too much gear. Between legendaries and some classes being forced to wear 6 tier pieces, that's half of your character that is locked to a specific item.

Firs of all, you are not "FORCED" to do anything regardless of what character / spec you play"

a)This automatically invalidates almost half of the gear in the entire game, combined with a good portion of the gear being bad in the remaining slots because of how imbalanced secondary stats are for many specs

Complete and utter lies. They changed the way ilvl and gear works, so now its almost always the better choice to choose ilvl over stats. Get with the times.

b) SO MUCH LOOT IS WASTED/DISENCHANTED, it FeelsRealBadMan

4. Many of the utility legendaries are actually pretty cool and/or fun, but no one will ever use those over a 5-8% dps increase provided by a throughput legendary. It's very simple, no one will ever do that in any raiding setting. Not once, not ever. Prydaz is the only exception in high end progression cases.

It makes the gearing and playstyle game much more interesting than "herpa derp i only choose gear that gives me moar powa!" Utility legendaries might actually be more powerful than "throughput" legendaries if used correctly. If you choose a movement speed legendary on a fight that has high movement required, then you might be doing more dps than not having the extra mobility. Your point is invalid.

Titanforging

This one is pretty simple. I like the idea of the system for the most part, but like many things in Legion it just takes the RNG way too damn far. This is perhaps more personal so I will just list the two things that I think would make the system much more enjoyable for me. Instead of it feeling like you can get upgrades, even as a mythic raider, by helping your friends or just doing old content. It's more devolved into feeling like YOU'RE FORCED to do everything, because the Titanforging doesn't seem uncommon.

Again, you're not FORCED to do anything. This is you making up a problem in your head.

1. Titanforging is capped at the base mythic item level, 930 in the example of ToS

a) This is still A TON of room for players to be rewarded, even your mythic player has those couple of slots they could get, but it greatly reduces the need to constantly do everything for upgrades

2. Mythic loot can warforge at +5/10, and Mythic bosses (only Mythic bosses) drop a currency similar to old badges that will also allow you to upgrade to that cap if you don't get lucky. Let your +15 weekly M+ item also fall in this category (or whatever the max level reward is at the time)

a) Mythic raiding needs to be more rewarding for the effort than it currently is. I think I can speak for most mythic players in that not being able to combat the loot RNG in Legion at all is VERY frustrating

[/quote]

The one thing that I will agree on is that the Titanforge system should have caps at the difficulties people do. So +15 or +20 ilvl for any difficulty should be the MAX a piece from that content will drop. That way it makes each difficulty you progress into feel more rewarded for going into that difficulty.

**Icecat** · 2017-08-14, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Nyel

I love the legendaries. I hate how we acquire them. I think they've done a great job with creating nice tools of altering your character with items but the rng factor and no way to somehow counter it make the entire legendary system awful. They can keep it for xpac 7 but improve it.

They might address the Legendary acquisition in the next expansion, but I meant that in regards to OP's complaint that it invalidates a ton of other gear. I'm sort of inclined to agree. Having to take into account set bonuses and the fucking wild array of titanforging on top of Legendaries is a huge pain in the ass but not necessarily "miserable" for me.

At least I don't have to keep a separate set of full gear for my DPS and Tank spec anymore (and PvP sets for those specs as well). Overall, things are still less complicated in Legion in terms of bag space than they've been in previous expansions.

**Artunias** · 2017-08-14, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Jaylock

Complete and utter lies. They changed the way ilvl and gear works, so now its almost always the better choice to choose ilvl over stats. Get with the times.

It makes the gearing and playstyle game much more interesting than "herpa derp i only choose gear that gives me moar powa!" Utility legendaries might actually be more powerful than "throughput" legendaries if used correctly. If you choose a movement speed legendary on a fight that has high movement required, then you might be doing more dps than not having the extra mobility. Your point is invalid.

I can't claim I know the stat weights for all classes, but I do know them for Warrior. Mastery is 37-50% more powerful than any other stat for Arms warriors. Crit is a shit tier stat for both specs, and haste is as much as 60% more powerful than any other stat up to 30% haste for Fury. So no, I can not just wear the higher item level most of the time for either of my specs. Either way, the point was more that much of your gear is locked regardless of stats because it's a tier piece or legendary.

Show me a mythic guild that has people using utility legendaries that aren't Prydaz over their best in slot throughput ones. I certainly don't see that in most logs I look at. Everyone uses the throughput ones, because combined it can easily be 12-15% dps increase. No one is ever not going to take the 15% more dps, it's just not going to happen.

**kamuimac** · 2017-08-14, 04:35 PM