[Resto] finally bottom level

[kooz]

From what i know based on their heal patterns disc would just normally negate your ghanir moments. druid is worst at sniping even with the sotf build. Also it depends, our raid lead often just resets the fight when the raid hp is below average, while it's def healable within 5-10 seconds with my hots, it's just not immediately obvious to many players.

[Tiberria]

Host is an exceptionally bad fight in general to judge HPS on. The 2 healers that you have on the living side have nothing to heal for 80% of the fight, and are going to do like half the healing or less of the dead side healers.

[kooz]

yea, I just mentioned host as a fight to test my t20, we also have just one healer on the living side.

[Glorious Leader]

Like was said for months now t20 sucks. Its poor synergy between the bonuses without even comparing it to t19. Its limp bullshit

[Smellyflute]

I'm far from elite, my guild is 3/9 Mythic and I'm 934 item level. I've played resto druid this entire expansion, and while the dominance druids once held in Nighthold is gone, our tier 20 4 pc bonus is actually quite strong. I don't dominate the charts, but I'm somewhere between 1 and 4 of our 4 healers depending on the fight, and the RNG of the fight, and we run with a Holy Paladin, Holy Priest, and Resto Shaman, and I'm completely fine with that. In fact, if I want to be number one, I need to be looking for my windows and I have to earn those numbers. That's totally how it should be, imo.

I get invited immediately to 95+% of any mythic+ group I try to join. I get invited immediately to any normal or heroic pug raid group I try to join for 95+% of the time. I've been in 3 guilds this expansion, and all 3 of them invited me and immediately put me on the starting roster. I have never been benched for performance. In my opinion, all this doomsaying is whining because you can't just dominate the charts effortlessly by casting rejuv on cooldown.

Get good, and don't belittle my class. Thanks.

Abominable, Arygos

[kooz]

smellyflute, that's all true that you are mentioning, I'm also not a big fan of t19 rejuv blanketing icc style and even had some heated discussions on druid discord back in the day, however the facts are they just nerfed our base healing instead of fixing the lego shoulder/t19 thing, and that's definitely a wrong move.

[fallenangel-succ]

Jesus this threads. As everybody else put before me, HPS is not the sole reason to bring a healer, ask any mist weaver with decent throughput and no utility. Also the healing model for druids is quite different (proactive, not reactive), so its not very comparable to any class save maybe disc.

Pray tell, what is this utility you bring to the raid? Proactive healing is not a thing, when you are stretched for mana - try healing on a paladin and see the night and day difference in terms of efficiency.
OP: what a shocker, having 4 pieces you can't upgrade is gimping our scalability.

[theburned]

Also have to question what are all doomsayers basing this on aswell? Warcraftlogs max percentages, personal experience or expectancy of a top 100 rdruid??
One of the main reasons rdruids are falling a bit off aswell is because cult and deep rooted are getting less and less value, so have people considered taking other talents like ToL to make up for one of our "core" talents being a bit weaker. Like if suddenly our spell that does like 6-12% of our throughput during progress does 3-4% shouldn't you consider the other talent that makes you stronger regardless of how low your raid is?

its a bit weak to say that top logs are a good indicator, a lot of is a lot of cheese and 1 good healer amongst other bad ones, paladin looks a bit weaker than they really are though, as there arent a lot of great public logging paladins (ours is consistently doing another 5-10% on top of public rank 1s at least).
Otherwise just coincidental that you have a good log whenever you take some extra damage whenever you actually have some extra healing available.

[Tiberria]

Also have to question what are all doomsayers basing this on aswell? Warcraftlogs max percentages, personal experience or expectancy of a top 100 rdruid??

I agree that looking at the top 20 logs, or 99th percentile logs, etc. is a waste of time, because those events are skewed, but you can easily just base this on the "average" Mythic healer - i.e. 50th percentile. Even without playing with ilvl fluctuations, Druids are at the bottom based on pure overall numbers.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

If you look at the average Heroic raider, Druids are even more clearly behind.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t&difficulty=4

I think this is a problem, because the way that Druids heal is also inherently less valuable than the way that say Paladins/Shaman/Holy Priests heal since almost all of our meaningful healing is locked into 7 - 30 second duration HoTs. Not only do they get sniped and often sniped badly (probably why heroic Druid numbers are so awful), but if everything else is equal, why would you want to take 7-30 seconds to heal something (incurring the additional risk of people not being topped for longer) when you can use a class that can do the same output in <2.5 second direct casts? The only time where that is countered is when mobility is so critical (i.e. pre-nerf KJ) that it outweighs the quality of delivery, but that's a niche minority of the time. In general, for a HoT healer to bring as much value to the raid as something like a HPriest/RShaman/HPally, they need to bring more effective throughput.

[Deleted]

I think this is a problem, because the way that Druids heal is also inherently less valuable than the way that say Paladins/Shaman/Holy Priests heal since almost all of our meaningful healing is locked into 7 - 30 second duration HoTs. Not only do they get sniped and often sniped badly (probably why heroic Druid numbers are so awful), but if everything else is equal, why would you want to take 7-30 seconds to heal something (incurring the additional risk of people not being topped for longer) when you can use a class that can do the same output in <2.5 second direct casts? The only time where that is countered is when mobility is so critical (i.e. pre-nerf KJ) that it outweighs the quality of delivery, but that's a niche minority of the time. In general, for a HoT healer to bring as much value to the raid as something like a HPriest/RShaman/HPally, they need to bring more effective throughput.

Nice theory mate. Unfortunately proven wrong in 4 consecutive raids this addon. Come up with something better next time.

It's exactly the other way around btw holy priest and monk absolutely need to have higher throughput than druid to be ever considered over one.

[Deleted]

2 healers
living side

Found your problem

[Purpleisbetter]

Nice theory mate. Unfortunately proven wrong in 4 consecutive raids this addon. Come up with something better next time.

It's exactly the other way around btw holy priest and monk absolutely need to have higher throughput than druid to be ever considered over one.

Then i make, again, the usual question: would you rather doing 1000hps in a singe 2 sec cast or with a 18 seconds hot?

Btw, the 4 tiers you mention is a product of your mind.

Druid weren't an outlier in ToV/EN, while it was for the ONLY tier we had so far in Legion. You know why? Tuned to have slightly more throughput WHILE getting super strong tier set.

Nice try, but there's no point on doing 1000 over 18 seconds if i can do the same in a single hard cast and then proceed to spam some damage.

Besides, it's all moot since HPriest MW Monk and R.Druid should have granted flat out superior throughput over HPala, R.Sham and Disc, since those 3 specs bring real utility.

[Deleted]

druid and monk bring no utility

[Tiberria]

It's obvious that the appropriate move would be to nerf the T19 4 piece by like 75%, and then reverse the 7.2.5 nerfs/buff the base class back up to where it needs to be. That would eliminate the problem/annoyance of having to use previous tier gear and the corresponding lack of gear scaling.

[Klive]

ITT: HPS matters.

[Deleted]

it matters when it comes to balancing classes and those who have all the utilities also doing the most healing. It wouldn't matter to paladin or shaman if they a healed a little less than average because their utilities would bring them no matter what. (star augur for example)

This thread has been going on for a while now and I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this concept. the irony of other classes (I assume) coming here clearly butthurt about druid's t19 healing performance (not even understanding why that happened) saying druid underperforming is fine and "it's not about healing", meanwhile the classes cluttered with utility now just simply outperform the others in healing too... just lol

[Purpleisbetter]

ITT: HPS matters.

Explain to us why resto druid got major nerfs in 7.2.5 and why resto T20 did not get an appropriate tuning if HPS doesnt matter.

Cmon guys at least try.

[kooz]

at this point it's good to expect that at least t21 is going to have a good chance to be probably among the best heal tiers

obviously nerfing base heal instead of handling the t19+shoulder situation was the wrong move by blizz.

[Tiberria]

We should provide feedback on this on the official forums https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20758787096 - if you think that they should just gut the T19 set bonuses and then tune the spec appropriately around not having them.

[Deleted]

pretty sure t21 being really strong is their fix to the t19 problem, so don't expect them to do anything else about it