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  1. #41
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    I worry moreso for Supports, who don't have a lot of defensive options against a Dva. Such as Zenyatta, Lucio, or Mercy.

    Ana has one chance, and if it fucks up, its over.
    Mercy will fly away like she always does. Lucio will have to actually run, and it sounds like the micro missiles work like a mini barrage, so with his speed he'll probably be able to evade much of it, after that DVa lacks the range and mobility to out damage his heals. Zen I don't know, he does a lot of damage, so it depends how strong the barrage is. With only 2 seconds of DM he has arguably a better chance. Ana is no different, it was always the case that she Sleeped you or died.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    I would have agreed with a change like this too, makes for exciting plays too.

    That clip of the D.va blocking those Tracer shots at Lucio from Korea that sadly got deleted was really exciting to see.
    Not everything that happens in the game has to be pretty, but everything in game should at least work. We had four seasons of Reinhardt spending a bunch of time holding RMB, I don't see anyone ever asking for that to be nerfed, certainly not in the name of "exciting esports". You sound ridiculous.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Mercy will fly away like she always does. Lucio will have to actually run, and it sounds like the micro missiles work like a mini barrage, so with his speed he'll probably be able to evade much of it, after that DVa lacks the range and mobility to out damage his heals. Zen I don't know, he does a lot of damage, so it depends how strong the barrage is. With only 2 seconds of DM he has arguably a better chance. Ana is no different, it was always the case that she Sleeped you or died.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Not everything that happens in the game has to be pretty, but everything in game should at least work. We had four seasons of Reinhardt spending a bunch of time holding RMB, I don't see anyone ever asking for that to be nerfed, certainly not in the name of "exciting esports". You sound ridiculous.
    Stop claiming Rein and D.Va are the same thing, christ.

    This isn't even close to live yet and there absolutely is a reason for this change if it does happen, just because you play her doesn't mean she's exempt from any sort of design change, if she gets nerfed to the point of being unplayable you have all the right to complain but you should just wait for PTR and try it out yourself.

    Also I'm very glad they're actually changing something BECAUSE of the higher MMR brackets/pro play for once rather than constantly catering to the casual crowd.

    And Eric is actually right in saying that supports should worry about this more than anything, they already struggled with Doomfist being absolutely nuts right now and DM being nerfed reduces the amount of peel even more, I wouldn't be comfortable ever picking Zen like this.

  3. #43
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    Stop claiming Rein and D.Va are the same thing, christ.

    This isn't even close to live yet and there absolutely is a reason for this change if it does happen, just because you play her doesn't mean she's exempt from any sort of design change, if she gets nerfed to the point of being unplayable you have all the right to complain but you should just wait for PTR and try it out yourself.

    Also I'm very glad they're actually changing something BECAUSE of the higher MMR brackets/pro play for once rather than constantly catering to the casual crowd.

    And Eric is actually right in saying that supports should worry about this more than anything, they already struggled with Doomfist being absolutely nuts right now and DM being nerfed reduces the amount of peel even more, I wouldn't be comfortable ever picking Zen like this.
    I'm not claiming they're the same thing, I'm pointing out she blocks literally half as much damage as him or Orisa, with many more limitations on what she can block. You sound like she shouldn't be expected to shield and use DM.

    If you actually looked up responses to this, it's the low-end casual crowd who are looking forward to micro missiles, and the high end players of her that are really upset about this. Those who are most happy at high end are DPS players; while like you say Supports are bricking it.

    You sound ridiculous because you're fearing for Supports, which is who I'm out to protect; while cheering for high end DPS and Twitch viewers.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I'm not claiming they're the same thing, I'm pointing out she blocks literally half as much damage as him or Orisa, with many more limitations on what she can block. You sound like she shouldn't be expected to shield and use DM.

    If you actually looked up responses to this, it's the low-end casual crowd who are looking forward to micro missiles, and the high end players of her that are really upset about this. Those who are most happy at high end are DPS players; while like you say Supports are bricking it.

    You sound ridiculous because you're fearing for Supports, which is who I'm out to protect; while cheering for high end DPS and Twitch viewers.
    What limitations on what she can block, besides Zarya laser? DM goes MUCH further forward and is 10 times more mobile than Rein's, Orisa shouldn't even be mentioned.

    Her DM can do some insane shit.

    Most comments from actual high end D.Va players I've seen are cautiously optimistic to slightly worried about dive, and mostly just curious to see how it ends up while hoping she doesn't get Roadhogged.

    Which is the correct response to this.

  5. #45
    I might actually try D-va now

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post

    Don't really like the sound of the nerf to DM, it's kind of a worse Zarya bubble with only 2 seconds on it. It's just not tanky at all, sounds very DPSy now; she's going to need proper babysitting now.
    Ah, fuck yes! Her matrix is just too strong, and she feels very weak damage wise, easily my least favorite tank and character.
    Mother pus bucket!

  7. #47
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    What limitations on what she can block, besides Zarya laser? DM goes MUCH further forward and is 10 times more mobile than Rein's, Orisa shouldn't even be mentioned.

    Her DM can do some insane shit.

    Most comments from actual high end D.Va players I've seen are cautiously optimistic to slightly worried about dive, and mostly just curious to see how it ends up while hoping she doesn't get Roadhogged.

    Which is the correct response to this.
    Rein's and Orisa's shields cover all the way backwards. "But you can flank that!" You can more easily flank D.Va's DM. Besides Zarya beam, it doesn't block Mei's Primary fire, Sombra's Hacks, Symmetra's Beams, Genji's ult or Dashes, Doomfist anything, Winston, Rein charges, Roadhog's Hook (surprising how DM complaints became a cacophony only after Roadhog's nerf by the way), and Lucio Boops. There may well be others.

    Meanwhile you're removing counterplay to ults from Pharah, Reaper, Soldier, McCree, Torbjorn, Roadhog, Bastion who all have bad play indirectly buffed for them.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2017-08-22 at 09:02 AM.

  8. #48
    Scarab Lord DrMcNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Post View Post
    Yeah definitely not sure how I feel about this, I don't really like tanks being made less like tanks and more like DPS. Maybe make it absorb a certain amount of damage instead of it being time based or something? 50% is pretty huge, and then she's basically just ult charge.
    I really love the tank argument. Does nobody realize that the heroes in OW are rather loosely categorized and have more specific classifications?

    If we were to categorize the tanks as "Hard tank" and "Off-Tank" for instance, you would have two hard tanks and the rest would be off-tanks. Zarya isn't very tanky either, but she wasn't built to consistently eat damage. D.va falls more into a "Vanguard" category.

    And Sombra leans more to off-healer/disruptor.
    Symmetra and Torb are Builders, specialists if you will, with Torb being the ranged builder/support and Symmetra the close range one.

    I could care less about a hero's given role. What's more important is building an interesting and fun hero. And being a Defense Matrix bot is neither fun nor interesting.
    Last edited by DrMcNinja; 2017-08-22 at 09:13 AM.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Rein's and Orisa's shields cover all the way backwards. "But you can flank that!" You can more easily flank D.Va's DM. Besides Zarya beam, it doesn't block Mei's Primary fire, Sombra's Hacks, Symmetra's Beams, Genji's ult or Dashes, Doomfist anything, Winston, Rein charges, Roadhog's Hook (surprising how DM complaints became a cacophony only after Roadhog's nerf by the way), and Lucio Boops. There may well be others.

    Meanwhile you're removing counterplay to ults from Pharah, Reaper, Soldier, McCree, Torbjorn, Roadhog, Bastion who all have bad play indirectly buffed for them.
    'You can more easily flank D.Va's DM.'

    ..What?

  10. #50
    I like the addition of these rockets.

    Anything else I won't comment on because everyone is jumping down each others throats here lol
    This website LOL

  11. #51
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    'You can more easily flank D.Va's DM.'

    ..What?
    It's a very narrow cone that's pointed usually specifically at someone, which makes it much easier to get around. For example, Junkrat can scoot his bombs right under it, and you don't need much elevation to hit her above it even if it's facing you. You don't need to get much to the side of it to avoid it, unlike Rein or Orisa where you have to get right around the side 90 degrees to them to get at them because the shields are so much wider and taller.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It's a very narrow cone that's pointed usually specifically at someone, which makes it much easier to get around. For example, Junkrat can scoot his bombs right under it, and you don't need much elevation to hit her above it even if it's facing you. You don't need to get much to the side of it to avoid it, unlike Rein or Orisa where you have to get right around the side 90 degrees to them to get at them because the shields are so much wider and taller.
    D.Va can spin herself around faster than Rein every effectively could and it extends forward really far, it's borderline impossible for Rein to keep up with Tracer but D.Va can do it pretty easily, you're also underselling how large DM's area of effect really is.

    Anyways I'm done here, if she ends up being awful if these changes go live, unluckly.

  13. #53
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    D.Va can spin herself around faster than Rein every effectively could and it extends forward really far, it's borderline impossible for Rein to keep up with Tracer but D.Va can do it pretty easily, you're also underselling how large DM's area of effect really is.

    Anyways I'm done here, if she ends up being awful if these changes go live, unluckly.
    They can both spin at whatever the players' mouse sensitivity allows. O.o

    I also don't think weakening her against Tracer of all heroes should have been seen as a priority.

  14. #54
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Love how they keep nerfing tanks because DPS just wanna Q and get POTG without thinking about it.
    this is facts

  15. #55
    Legendary! Mehman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    D.Va can spin herself around faster than Rein
    what?
    No really, what?

  16. #56
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    Meh ,dva is fine , it's more of a l2p issue. And I only play mccuck and soldier.
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ey b0ss View Post
    Meh ,dva is fine , it's more of a l2p issue. And I only play mccuck and soldier.
    But she's boring to play as, and annoying to play against. I like how they traded a little of the defense for some firepower.
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  18. #58
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankbug View Post
    But she's boring to play as
    It's not like her pick rates are low, so I don't think that's a major issue here on the subjective issue of 'fun'.

    , and annoying to play against. I like how they traded a little of the defense for some firepower.
    Annoying to play against for who and why? DPS because she limits their DPS capability? Isn't that what tanks are supposed to do? And it's hardly a little, it's over half when you factor in the 1 second pause before recharging. For burst damage she's never had, and no one ever asked for.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It's not like her pick rates are low, so I don't think that's a major issue here on the subjective issue of 'fun'.
    Well, she's really strong and useful, so having her makes winning the round more likely. I don't think she's a very diverse character. I also find Mercy to be very boring to play also, but she's almost mandatory. Anyway, don't forget that Dva is a young, cute "anime-ish" girl in a tight suit, also an e-sport champion and drives a mech, basically the target audience's wet dream. I'm sure that also influences pick rate, although probably not in the higher ranks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Annoying to play against for who and why? DPS because she limits their DPS capability? Isn't that what tanks are supposed to do? And it's hardly a little, it's over half when you factor in the 1 second pause before recharging. For burst damage she's never had, and no one ever asked for.
    Maybe we should try to move away from tank/dps/healer-classifications and let characters have a little variety? Her DM eating up everything being thrown in that direction makes it feel OP. Attacking is just a waste of time, which is not true for shields, which will break quickly if enough firepower is applied, and the damage might still affect players not properly covered. If anyone should have this nullification ability, it should be more limited, either in CD or effect. Her little point blank range cannons are annoying to use and annoying to be the target of. Consistent blasts of low-damage shots nibbling at your health bar.....yawn! I welcome getting killed faster from her so I can wait for a respawn instead of getting slowly tortured to death.

    At any rate, from a design view, it seems like a right move. She drives a mech, which weapon systems shouldn't be limited to a couple of sawed off shotguns. The missiles is a suitable addition to her arsenal.
    Mother pus bucket!

  20. #60
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Annoying to play against for who and why? DPS because she limits their DPS capability? Isn't that what tanks are supposed to do?
    According to Blizzard, no. That isn't what defines the "tank" category.

    "Tank heroes soak damage and break apart fortified positions, like closely-grouped enemies and narrow chokepoints. If you’re a tank, you lead the charge."
    https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/game/overview/

    While they're reducing her soak slightly, the changes to her offense are going to make her MUCH more capable at the latter part, the "breaking apart fortified positions" bit.

    And I really think you're underestimating the strength of Defense Matrix. You can't really compare it to Reinhardt/Orisa in terms of damage prevented; their barriers are constant blocks that are often better worked around than punched through, unless your team focuses their fire. D.va's Defense Matrix can't be broken; it absorbs all projectiles, no matter how much damage they might do. If you had enough ults being dumped on you at the same time, it can absorb levels of damage that neither Orisa nor Reinhardt could. What this does is shift DM to an emergency button to soak big bursts, rather than something that just eats enemy ultimates. You might pop it on Reaper to give your squishies time to dive out of range, or to give them time to run for cover from McCree's High Noon, but it's about buying those seconds, not just countering the ultimate entirely, now.

    Nerfing it by half might be going TOO far; maybe it needs 2.5-3 seconds of uptime. But 4 felt like too much. That's what PTR playtesting is for, though.

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