I laugh when people complain that the social aspect of the game is gone.

[Nnyco]

forced socializing means the game is good. when there's no need the socialize in a multiplayer game there's something wrong.

end of thread

what, how does that make any sense? i rather socialise with people i wanna be social with, not with every random nub that runs across my path

if anything forced socializing is bad, see most group quests in vanilla/tbc

[Nerovar]

Translation: I'm so socially inept I literally can't bring myself to talk to anyone unless there's something making my do it.

If you don't have to communicate with your fellow players in a multiplayer game then it's because the game is too easy. It's not about "being forced to socialize" it's about having some degree of difficulty that doesn't allow you to run through dungeons with your blinders on. But I guess there's no arguing with someone who insults other people over stupid shit like this simply because they have an opinion differing from yours.

[volescue]

Just because you're not FORCED to socialize anymore doesn't mean you can't. I make new friends all the time by simply making a choice to be social and talk to people. Because I like making friends and socializing.

The difference is, back in vanilla and TBC, you had to socialize if you wanted to do anything at max level. Queueing systems and the group finder didn't destroy the social aspect of the game, they just made it so that you don't have to anymore if you don't want to, and that's fine if that's your prerogative.

But I will never understand the whiners that cry about the social aspect of the game being dead. What the hell is stopping you from being friendly and talking to people? The answer is nothing but yourself. The problem isn't the game. It's YOU. The game is exactly as social as you make it.

My complaint is that social interactions aren't fluid. To me it seems more like I HAVE to go out of my way to make friends. You don't need groups or someone else for the vast majority of quests, so no one groups. For the ones that you do need a group, you just queue into the quest finder and be done with it because they are so frequent, it is just better to get a bunch of randoms than drag some friends along. You don't run into the same people frequently at all, so you don't have that "Hey, I remember you when we did ______" feeling anymore which removes a weak connection that start a stronger one.

If they wanted to keep LFR and Dungeon Finder, I would be perfectly fine with that. I understand the appeal to a notable size of the playerbase and you still need a group for mythics. I just wish they would get rid of sharding in the new zones and the main cities (Such the Capital cities, and then the latest shared city. Old dal, Shat, etc. could still be sharded). At least then you would start to run into and talk to the same people and guilds. For me, I have friends I play with. But they start and end in my guild, because those are the only people I see frequently.

Translation: I'm so socially inept I literally can't bring myself to talk to anyone unless there's something making my do it.

I disagree with the extent of what the person you quoted said. But how often do you just randomly go out and become friends with random people on the street, who you may very likely never see again? Comparatively, how often do you become friends or acquaintances with people you run into regularly, be it at the same gym, job, bar, etc? WoW is too much like walking on the streets of a big city when it used to be more like living in a small town and the sub numbers have only gone down since then.

[Nerovar]

WoW is too much like walking on the streets of a big city when it used to be more like living in a small town and the sub numbers have only gone down since then.

That's a perfect analogy.

[AcidicSyn]

There are still casual guilds that don't care about hardcore progression who don't kick people for being bad. You could join one of those guilds if that's what you're looking for, or you could join a guild that clears the hardest content but has to remove people who drag the group down. Either choice is fine but you can't have the best of both worlds.

This is actually why I miss my old wrath guild. I feel like we had that, we ran 25m heroic ICC and eventually got LK on farm, my 10man group got bane of the fallen king while current (pre-nerf) as well. We were in absolutely no way even remotely close to competing with the top guilds, (our bane kill only came maybe 3 lock outs before the nerfs started). We grew close and built each other up, I recall several players that were not necessarily that great at their jobs; considered subpar. We could have replaced them fairly easily, but instead we chose to work with them (if they were willing), to identify why they were struggling with X mechanic or why their dps was suffering so much and how they could improve. In many of those cases, it would work out and they would be a better raider as a result, which then benefited our progression.

I think, at least for me, this kind of atmosphere is what really made me choose to open up and be more socially active with them; become an officer, take on more responsibility, etc. It was a really positive experience. These days, (perhaps as the player base ages?) I don't really find many groups like this who have that patience, understanding, and drive to really build that community, and there is ZERO part of me that believes this is even partially due to the existence of things like LFR and other queued content. Personally I think it's more likely related to the age of the player base increasing, or at least that of the raiding majority in any case. I'm 30 now, I have my own home and family to take care of and dedicate my time to, I still have the skill I had when I raided with my team in wrath, I watch videos, and pug when and where I can. But many times, most times, I just want to relax and play WoW for an hour or two; and if I haven't already spent time watching videos or pugging; I may not already be 100% fluent with the mechanics of a boss which usually results in one of two scenarios:

Scenario 1 - I read the journal on my way there and focus more on paying attention to the fight itself and learning those mechanics than to meters (I actually turn them off when I do this) which can sometimes result in lower than desired dps and thus- kicked.

Scenario 2 - I wing it, relying on my reflexes alone to react to mechanics I may not have seen either much or at all before. The result here is usually my DPS is just fine, but I die to something ridiculous and then either kicked, or just feel like a leech on the rest of the raiders who did have the time to commit before hand.

I think a larger part of the issue, massively more so than any effect queued content has had, real or imaginary, is the actual culture the community has been adopting as a whole. The inflated requirements for pugs (and guilds) that are actually created with the intention of eliminating the social elements you refer to, even though most of those raid leaders will claim otherwise; such requirements only serve to eliminate or reduce the probability of failure in order to address or avoid issues concerning patience, understanding, leadership, camaraderie, infrastructure, and a slew of others. As others and you have said- they think "being social" means marking targets, calling for CC, and literally just SEEING other character names in their raidframes and knowing "yeah, that's another person" while plowing through content without so much as a how do you do; kick the fails, bring the steamrollers, silently clear the raid, wait for next week; rinse and repeat- If that is what passes as "being social" these days then I'm happy being antisocial.

TLDR - people (actual people, not the whiners you mentioned) are antisocial (actual antisocial) these days because, in my opinion; the community has taught them to be silent. To not ask questions, don't take risks, don't do anything that could be outside of the currently accepted norm.

Point of clarity: I am not suggesting the community need lower their expectations necessarily, I am a firm believer of the "So make your own group" approach to IL inflated requirements. But what if Blizzard took a different approach and introduced a system that was meant to build the confidence of less experienced players? Not a system to coddle them (fuck that), but more like an extension of the old MoP proving grounds (and now the class challenges) but designed around actual raid content. They would award no loot and be solo content where in players could focus on practicing different kinds of mechanics in a controlled environment.(maybe add some transmog reward if there absolutely needs to be incentive to get better....other than...being better), there would be a little ui menu where you could select what you need to train, set it, and then get to work. If there was a tool for players to actually practice these kinds of mechanics hands on, rather than just a video reference, I think that would make them much more confident which would, in turn, encourage them to break silence and spark more conversations with each other.

Just my 2c

[smaktat]

Just because you're not FORCED to socialize anymore doesn't mean you can't. I make new friends all the time by simply making a choice to be social and talk to people. Because I like making friends and socializing.

The difference is, back in vanilla and TBC, you had to socialize if you wanted to do anything at max level. Queueing systems and the group finder didn't destroy the social aspect of the game, they just made it so that you don't have to anymore if you don't want to, and that's fine if that's your prerogative.

But I will never understand the whiners that cry about the social aspect of the game being dead. What the hell is stopping you from being friendly and talking to people? The answer is nothing but yourself. The problem isn't the game. It's YOU. The game is exactly as social as you make it.

Most people play this game because they don't want to go out of their way for social interaction. They're already introverted af. The need for social interaction is what made it enjoyable.

For instance, some of us feel we need a reason to talk with another person, to talk with another person. A more extroverted individual will talk with another person because they need to talk with another person. Do you see the difference? The extrovert's reason for socializing is to socialize. The introvert does not have that reason.

In the internet, and especially in PC only online gaming, introverts typically thrive. It's not that introverts don't always like to not talk with anyone, it's that they don't have a reason to or see a reason to. Having a reason to do that is what made a lot of us enjoy the game to begin with; it made doing something introverts typically found extremely difficult, simple. It was where we got something we usually struggled with before.

[Wvvtayy]

I am not socially inept and i still doesnt feel any need to social in WoW. Why would i do that? Most players in the game will be gone and i will propably never see them ever again anyway. Why should i join guild and social here when i can free join LFR and get my rewads and content done with far less effort and time?

Well that's the thing. If youre fine with just doing lfr and not needing to talk to people, that's fine and dandy. I'm not complaining about those people. I'm complaining about the people who only do LFR then bitch moan and scream on the forums about how the social aspect is dead while making a conscious choice not to do harder content that still requires communication.

[mrsohta]

I don't understand how some people say they can't socialize in game, even in lfr I talk with people. Tho some people report me for talking a lot

[Wvvtayy]

I don't understand how some people say they can't socialize in game, even in lfr I talk with people. Tho some people report me for talking a lot

Socially retarded people who whine that the social aspect is dead just because no one is forced to engage in such riveting conversation anymore such as "cc moon kill skull" can't be reasoned with I guess.

[Kokolums]

Therein is the difference in player mindset between then and now. Whereas some players want the fastest, most efficient, least time consuming, and least troublesome way of accomplishing task X, original players of WoW (or other MMOs) with the, lets say, 'D&D mindset', were / are more concerned with the adventure / social experience and 'smelling the roses', and far less concerned on what is efficient. Two entirely different player types, two entirely different mindsets about how to approach and what an MMORPG experience should be. Obviously, who know what type eventually won this battle.

The social aspect won. Game had millions more players while it was social. If they fixed wow and made it social again it would shoot back over 10 million subs and keep going higher. They could ditch the 2 million or so players they want an antisocial game and make tons more money.

[Wvvtayy]

The social aspect won. Game had millions more players while it was social. If they fixed wow and made it social again it would shoot back over 10 million subs and keep going higher. They could ditch the 2 million or so players they want an antisocial game and make tons more money.

Hahahaha, cute. You actually think a 13 year old game will regain 10 million lost subs if they just made it so that you had to spam trade for 2 hours to find a group again.

[Kokolums]

Most people play this game because they don't want to go out of their way for social interaction. They're already introverted af. The need for social interaction is what made it enjoyable.

For instance, some of us feel we need a reason to talk with another person, to talk with another person. A more extroverted individual will talk with another person because they need to talk with another person. Do you see the difference? The extrovert's reason for socializing is to socialize. The introvert does not have that reason.

In the internet, and especially in PC only online gaming, introverts typically thrive. It's not that introverts don't always like to not talk with anyone, it's that they don't have a reason to or see a reason to. Having a reason to do that is what made a lot of us enjoy the game to begin with; it made doing something introverts typically found extremely difficult, simple. It was where we got something we usually struggled with before.

A HUUUUGE problem on the internet is that introverted people cannot fathom the extroverted mindset to the point where introverted people call extroverted people trolls. The way they see it, there could be no possible reason for their behavior except if it was trolling when there is a very good reason - they need social interaction. This is why forums need to pick a good number of extroverted moderators. You get too many introverted moderators and they just start banning all the extroverts.

[Charge me Doctor]

Just have to look at trade chat or general chat for 10 minutes, to know the internet as a whole drasticly changed.

Trade chat = 50% bot/website advertising 30% boost spam, 15% guild recruitment spam, and 5% actual trade.
General chat = 99% memes

That wasn't the case in vanilla, I was in guilds all the time, yet I did a ton of trading/grouping with other people too.

Main reason conversations got going and didn't go out of hand most of the time was because of player reputation, maybe because I was on an RP server it might have been a "nicer" community, I don't know, but the chat didn't feel like Twitch Chat 13 years ago.

I'm not talking about guild chat here, and people who "complain" about the social aspect are 99% talking about non-guild chat too I hope.

Guild recruitment tools are hopelessly outdated, and blizz hasn't updated anything since Cataclysm, a huge miss imo (yes I know there's like 20 different forums/website outside of game)

Being friendly is obviously prefered, and being toxic and a diminishing social structure isn't directly linked.

Even tho people can get away much easier with offensive chat these days, I do report stuff that doesn't belong in a game-chat all the time, I don't react to it cause I am not lowering myself to that.

yesterday i've got a girl buy my 20 caged imps for 100k gold after shittalking in /4 for 20 minutes. I don't know about your chats but mine are awesome.

Also speaking about guild recruitment: i found that joining "trade" or "social" guilds are a bad way to play the game - if you are in there for drama, then sure, go for it. But if you want progress - you shouldn't use ingame tools to find a guild, go to wowprogress, browse guild websites or forums and apply for guilds properly. I just don't see any way blizzard can "fix" that "problem"

[bryroo]

They're complaining that more people aren't forced to tolerate them to get the rewards from group content like in the old days.

[Wvvtayy]

They're complaining that more people aren't forced to tolerate them to get the rewards from group content like in the old days.

That...makes a lot of sense actually.

[Solidsteel]

Game was way better back in the day and the removal of many social aspects has aided the decline. Sub numbers don't lie.

[Wvvtayy]

Game was way better back in the day and the removal of many social aspects has aided the decline. Sub numbers don't lie.

Correlation =/= causation

[Advent]

There's another game that doesn't have any queue system, and it's called Guild Wars 2. The game still isn't a bustling social utopia. It's often not the systems or features in place that inhibit social interactions in my experience. Rather, it is how people view the other players around them.
We tend to see other players not as "people", but as tools to further our own ends these days. Blame not the system, blame the people around you who don't care enough about you as an individual to extend common courtesies and dignity.

Maybe modern MMO's just cater to a modern asocial population shaped by a societal system in which you are meant to compete and 'use' each-other rather than empathize and socialize. Guilds are a solution as too many people just tend to be sociopaths in large anonymous heterogeneous groups.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[deniter]

Didn't bother reading the whole thread but OP has greatly mistaken if he thinks a social aspect limits only to talking to other players. Many game mechanics required interaction between players, like forming a group for quests and dungeons, trading items and services, deciding tactics in group content, etc.

Ofc there's also talking - the usual chit-chat and small talk - which also is a part of MMO gameplay, but what i really miss is the social aspect that relates to game mechanics.

[TheVaryag]

Just because you're not FORCED to socialize anymore doesn't mean you can't. I make new friends all the time by simply making a choice to be social and talk to people. Because I like making friends and socializing.

The difference is, back in vanilla and TBC, you had to socialize if you wanted to do anything at max level. Queueing systems and the group finder didn't destroy the social aspect of the game, they just made it so that you don't have to anymore if you don't want to, and that's fine if that's your prerogative.

But I will never understand the whiners that cry about the social aspect of the game being dead. What the hell is stopping you from being friendly and talking to people? The answer is nothing but yourself. The problem isn't the game. It's YOU. The game is exactly as social as you make it.

And that's exactly what Is wrong with wow, and what makes It worse, players like you.

Why do you play an MMORPG then? With one of the M's standing for MULTIPLAYER? That's like playing Battlefield and complaining there's people killing you.

That Is exactly what was good about Vanilla, TBC and halfway through Wrath, you had to talk to people, be social and make guilds to do high end content, that's how It was, that's how It is, and should be. Queue systems did not help the situation and I wish they were gone, but they also add something - convenience, when you don't feel like talking to people and just wanna run a quick heroic for fun that's also fine.

But ultimately, If you wanna do -HIGH END- things, raids, rated pvping and so on, you should be talking to people, It's after all a MULTIPLAYER game. That's half the problem of WoW ever since Cataclysm.

You forgot to mention that not only to do high end content you need people, but to do certain group quests outdoors, leveling Is half the experience (Or It should've been, ever since Cataclysm made that obsolete) and there, you encounter friends, you fight through challenges together, you do hard quests together to take down Bogan the brutal In the barrens cause he's an elite mob and gives nice loot and also has a chest hidden somewhere.

I will never understand people who don't realize this game Is for multiplayer, and despite Legion HEAVILY encouraging singleplayer mentality and osloing that this Is for multiple people to enjoy, not just you, you're not the only person In the entire game. The aspect Isn't that, that's stupid you're right about that, It's just not encouraged enough as It was before. I made countless friends doing dailies that had group content, like the frost wyrm killing quest back In Wrath where you needed a group, I made tons of friends then, before that and after that.

To this day I at the very least say "Hello" to my newly formed heroic group or any group, cause that's just nice to say and says you may want to socialize and be nice and not just be another mindless drone spamming AoE and pressing the W key. There Is no one problem, I don't know where you're getting that Idea matey, In life there's many factors to consider to everything. And like WoW's social aspect, It's partly the players fault for not socializing, but moooostly WoW's fault for not encouraging this. And I can't blame anyone who begun WoW in Legion cause that's a very solo mentality kinda expansion, partly why It's the worst expansion for me, and the lore, artifact system, legendary system, bad zone design... but that's for another forum post!