1. #1

    When to Replace Convergence of Fates?

    Currently my Fury trinket set up is:

    860 Convergence of Fates
    890 Umbral Moonglaives

    Now that I'm running Heroic ToS and likely to get the Heroic Moonglaives soon that leaves me with an 860 Convergence.

    I just want to know when its appropriate to replace Fates for a Heroic ToS trinket.

    I understand the proc is great for Fury but when do other trinkets begin to outweigh it, i.e Cradle of Anguish and others.

  2. #2
    You won't need to replace it until Argus. Not even a 950 BIS trinket will out sim the benefit u get from Convergence.

  3. #3
    Rule of thumb is, you don't. Apart from Moonglaives, none of the ToS trinkets are that strong for us, not enough to offset shaving 15-20 seconds off our very powerful cooldown.

    Maybe there are some select few situations where replacing Convergence might work, but I've grown so used to it that I'm not going to bother.

    Also don't worry too much about the ilvl on that trinket. All it gives you is a bit more STR whose benefit is fairly negligible.

  4. #4
    Thanks for the quick replies!

    I'll settle in for Argus and just work on getting the better versions of Moonglaives until then

  5. #5
    Probably nothing until Argus trinkets are available to be honest; as stated above. BC is just too powerful and having a lower CD on it is godmode.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    when they nerf it (IF they even nerf it)

  7. #7
    Check your character on askmrrobot to get the actual numbers.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawomous View Post
    Check your character on askmrrobot to get the actual numbers.
    wat

    You'll pretty much be wanting to replace your CoF once it inevitably gets nerfed in 7.3.5. The item level is a shitty situation but you're aiming to have the proc, not the strength.

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by lawomous View Post
    Check your character on askmrrobot to get the actual numbers.
    No, do it with Simcraft(for example using raidbots), because that's maintained by people who actually know their class in-depth rather than 1 person who thinks he knows every single spec in the game in-depth. That said, you won't be replacing it until they nerf/change the trinket going into Antorus.
    Last edited by Tradu; 2017-08-26 at 10:08 AM.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    No, do it with Simcraft(for example using raidbots), because that's maintained by people who actually know their class in-depth rather than 1 person who thinks he knows every single spec in the game in-depth. That said, you won't be replacing it until they nerf/change the trinket going into Antorus.
    Bold statement....

    While I agree on simcraft. I find Raidbots incredibly inaccurate. I am surprised you haven't noticed that yourself. Take the same gear from "top gear" on raidbots and then sim it directly in simcraft. the results are very, very different. Raidbots puts my 870 Arcano above a 925 Umbral Moonglaive. Cannot see how that is trustworthy.

    Askmrrobot and simcraft at least (while numbers are different) sim the same top gear sets when comparing my own combinations. So that being said, I would trust AMR over raidbots any day of the week.

    Personally, I cannot wait to see CoF nerfed. Was a little disappointed on PTR to still see it as strong as it is. Running the same trinket from the 3rd week of Nighthold release and still not having replaced it is a little tedious for me.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminarium View Post
    Bold statement....

    While I agree on simcraft. I find Raidbots incredibly inaccurate. I am surprised you haven't noticed that yourself. Take the same gear from "top gear" on raidbots and then sim it directly in simcraft. the results are very, very different. Raidbots puts my 870 Arcano above a 925 Umbral Moonglaive. Cannot see how that is trustworthy.

    Askmrrobot and simcraft at least (while numbers are different) sim the same top gear sets when comparing my own combinations. So that being said, I would trust AMR over raidbots any day of the week.

    Personally, I cannot wait to see CoF nerfed. Was a little disappointed on PTR to still see it as strong as it is. Running the same trinket from the 3rd week of Nighthold release and still not having replaced it is a little tedious for me.
    It's great. It's a slot you never have to worry about lol.

  12. #12
    Hah!

    Yeah I used to think that, but it's just nice to have that moment when you finally replace something old with something new

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminarium View Post
    Raidbots puts my 870 Arcano above a 925 Umbral Moonglaive.
    Umbral will fluctuate in ranking depending on how much haste you have, but that doesn't matter if you hit Umbral one GCD before you pop Battle Cry so that the final tick of Umbral, which hits the hardest, falls within the Battle Cry window.
    "He who lives without discipline dies without honor" - Viking proverb

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminarium View Post
    Bold statement....

    While I agree on simcraft. I find Raidbots incredibly inaccurate. I am surprised you haven't noticed that yourself. Take the same gear from "top gear" on raidbots and then sim it directly in simcraft. the results are very, very different. Raidbots puts my 870 Arcano above a 925 Umbral Moonglaive. Cannot see how that is trustworthy.

    Askmrrobot and simcraft at least (while numbers are different) sim the same top gear sets when comparing my own combinations. So that being said, I would trust AMR over raidbots any day of the week..
    Using Raidbots and Simcraft is 100% identical, they're literally using the exact same numbers, the APLs, the code, all of it. Raidbots is a web-based interface for SimCraft which uses a series of servers to do the actual work of simulating instead of your own machine. Any differences you encounter are either within the margin of error or are due to differences in build (release, weekly, nightly), fight parameters, etc.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminarium View Post
    Bold statement....

    While I agree on simcraft. I find Raidbots incredibly inaccurate. I am surprised you haven't noticed that yourself. Take the same gear from "top gear" on raidbots and then sim it directly in simcraft. the results are very, very different. Raidbots puts my 870 Arcano above a 925 Umbral Moonglaive. Cannot see how that is trustworthy.

    Askmrrobot and simcraft at least (while numbers are different) sim the same top gear sets when comparing my own combinations. So that being said, I would trust AMR over raidbots any day of the week.

    Personally, I cannot wait to see CoF nerfed. Was a little disappointed on PTR to still see it as strong as it is. Running the same trinket from the 3rd week of Nighthold release and still not having replaced it is a little tedious for me.
    An 870 is better than a 925 umbral if its a ST fight.
    I level warriors, I have 48 max level warriors.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminarium View Post
    Bold statement....

    While I agree on simcraft. I find Raidbots incredibly inaccurate. I am surprised you haven't noticed that yourself. Take the same gear from "top gear" on raidbots and then sim it directly in simcraft. the results are very, very different. Raidbots puts my 870 Arcano above a 925 Umbral Moonglaive. Cannot see how that is trustworthy.

    Askmrrobot and simcraft at least (while numbers are different) sim the same top gear sets when comparing my own combinations. So that being said, I would trust AMR over raidbots any day of the week.

    Personally, I cannot wait to see CoF nerfed. Was a little disappointed on PTR to still see it as strong as it is. Running the same trinket from the 3rd week of Nighthold release and still not having replaced it is a little tedious for me.
    Raidbots is nothing but a web-interface for SimCraft, it runs the exact same program without any APL or data changes. If you're getting different results, it's because you're doing something different in one or the other, or a version is out of date.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DesMephisto View Post
    An 870 is better than a 925 umbral if its a ST fight.
    Not necessarily.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Raidbots is nothing but a web-interface for SimCraft, it runs the exact same program without any APL or data changes. If you're getting different results, it's because you're doing something different in one or the other, or a version is out of date.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not necessarily.
    If its a ST fight with no aoe? How could umbral be better.
    I level warriors, I have 48 max level warriors.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DesMephisto View Post
    If its a ST fight with no aoe? How could umbral be better.
    For Warriors Umbral is so good (thanks to the synergy with Battle Cry and CoF), that it is often better than other trinkets in ST.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesMephisto View Post
    If its a ST fight with no aoe? How could umbral be better.
    Because the other choices just aren't as good in most cases and moonglaives line up well with avatar so using them in line with BC and Avatar provide a nice amount of damage when used properly (having the last tick of burst inside the last second of BC). The scaling on it for AoE is just icing on the cake.

    If you think about it:

    Glaives - Vers stat and nice effect that lines up with every Avatar. Scales nice with AoE. Just have to make sure the targets aren't going to be moving during it's duration.
    Cinders - Crit stat and weak effect overall. Relies on a ton of other melee in the raid also using it just to be viable and that's not realistic. Doesn't scale with AoE.
    Specter - Str stat which is pretty weak for Fury and requires boss in the same position for each CD or it heavily devalues it. Also devalues convergence which is great for Fury causing you to use a different trinket in it's place since you have to delay BC for it while using it. It's simmed in the guide with convergence which is probably part of the reason why it under performs so much against glaives even at max potential. Doesn't scale with AoE.
    Vial - Str stat which is weak for Fury. Effect is fairly weak as is and is only better if the target dies during the effect. Doesn't scale with AoE.
    Engine - Master stat which is also nice, but strength proc which isn't our best stat. Also requires picking up orbs to extend a buff that isn't incredibly effective. There's no damage effect so the AoE scaling goes as far as the stats themselves go. Still not going to scale as well as glaives.
    Cradle - Haste buff with his great for Fury with a strength effect which isn't our best stat but if you can avoid letting it drop off is still pretty effective. Just like engine there's no damage effect so the scaling with AoE is up to the stats themselves. The problem with this trinket is that in raiding it's hard to avoid dropping below 50% hp and impossible on some fights. This happening greatly devalues the trinket.

    A decent ilvl on Arcano could potentially outdo glaives on single target but compared to the other trinkets in ToS the glaives are just a very good (even single target) option for the reasons above. Lines up well, does good damage, and doesn't rely on specific situations from devaluing itself.

    EDIT: This is what I get for posting early. I didn't realize a previous post of yours was specifically referring to Arcano vs Glaives. Arcano is a powerful stat stick for consistent damage, but Glaives delivers itself in bursts while lining up with Avatar. A boss like Maiden, for example, has moments of increased damage where you would pop CDs, which would put glaives way ahead of arcano because of the burst. I'm also going to guess that it would depend on gear considering my 880 arcano with haste gem socketed only beats my 910 glaives in sim by 2k dps.
    Last edited by Arbiter; 2017-08-28 at 01:03 PM.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminarium View Post
    Bold statement....

    While I agree on simcraft. I find Raidbots incredibly inaccurate. I am surprised you haven't noticed that yourself. Take the same gear from "top gear" on raidbots and then sim it directly in simcraft. the results are very, very different. Raidbots puts my 870 Arcano above a 925 Umbral Moonglaive. Cannot see how that is trustworthy.

    Askmrrobot and simcraft at least (while numbers are different) sim the same top gear sets when comparing my own combinations. So that being said, I would trust AMR over raidbots any day of the week.

    Personally, I cannot wait to see CoF nerfed. Was a little disappointed on PTR to still see it as strong as it is. Running the same trinket from the 3rd week of Nighthold release and still not having replaced it is a little tedious for me.
    Raidbots is literally a web interface for Simcraft. If it gets different results, you're using a different(likely old) version and/or different settings.
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