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  1. #1

    so hows frost now?

    dps wise? can they hold there own anymore or are they still dead last? I have a arms warrior and a ret too, but always liked the playstyle of frost dk (MG build)

    thx for any replies given

  2. #2
    Still too low to matter, but a few spots better than before.

    Need another solid 10% buff to matter. Or the 8% they so effectively tricked us about.

  3. #3
    Unholy and Arms rank #1 and #2 overall, they are very strong. Ret is roughly middle of the pack, and both Fury and FrostDK are bottom third.

  4. #4
    Immortal hellhamster's Avatar
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    Frost single target is crap, but the sustained aoe and cleave potential with Frostscythe is very strong (helped by ring legendary).

  5. #5
    Do you remember when 30% was the original buff and many people said "30% was to much"? Well I think we are at the point where I wonder if a 30% aura buff instead of the current 23% would even be enough to bring frost up.

    Aside from the token 3-5% buff that frost will receive before the new raid launches, my only query now is wondering how much will frost get buffed come patch 8.0 in order to "keep up" with everyone else.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bisque View Post
    Do you remember when 30% was the original buff and many people said "30% was to much"? Well I think we are at the point where I wonder if a 30% aura buff instead of the current 23% would even be enough to bring frost up.

    Aside from the token 3-5% buff that frost will receive before the new raid launches, my only query now is wondering how much will frost get buffed come patch 8.0 in order to "keep up" with everyone else.
    30% would have been to much with the old HRW (pre-hotfix) and HRW+BoS Build

    this new amalgamation of synergyless talents and Obliteration could easily use the original/initial aura buff

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Piz813's Avatar
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    It's fun. Try it in a pug or your raid

  8. #8
    The spec does not perform well and is complete garbage gameplay-wise (imo). Badly designed talents, bad talents synergy, not enough CDs, too much passives

  9. #9
    As people have already stated....it's a mediocre spec performance wise with little to no synergy among talents. What makes it worse is this was their design....It's pretty sad tbh.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Rixarius's Avatar
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    I was pretty stoked to play Frost again but it's still just not there. Obliteration isn't enough burst compared to pre-7.3 Breath. It does have really strong sustained cleave, but that really doesn't have a spot in Tomb of Sargeras... at least not for melee.

    Obliteration is an incredibly boring cooldown anyway, I hope they redesign that entire last row. Breath may have not been fun for everyone, but it was strong and different. Compare to Unholy's last row where you have Dark Arbiter, a strong single target nuke that changes how you play- Defile, a very strong AoE talent that is great for dungeons and has some legendary synergy- and Soul Reaper, a cooldown on a 45 second CD that can change your priority on the rest of your spells in order to get the most benefit out of the 21% haste window. Unholy just seems better designed right now.

    Frost needs more than some buffs, I think it needs just some spell changes in order to make it competitive, but more importantly, fun for everyone.
    I'm just here to complain, if I'm being honest

  11. #11
    It was a much better spec in 7.2.5, aside from being undertuned. BoS was at least engaging but now its still undertuned AND boring and there is little difference between a novice and a veteran.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoeth View Post
    It was a much better spec in 7.2.5, aside from being undertuned. BoS was at least engaging but now its still undertuned AND boring and there is little difference between a novice and a veteran.
    well im happy breath isnt the best anymore and i can use other talents, i was never a fan of breath for the dps specs, for blood in wod I liked it for the dps specs not.

  13. #13
    Immortal hellhamster's Avatar
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    It must be me and it's surely placebo, but has anyone else noticed they were doing slightly better numbers overnight? Still too low, but a good 100k more?

    I'm going crazy I think.

  14. #14
    No you're not. I feel like they got a huge buff. Even skada says I'm doing shitton of damage from obliterate alone. Didn't have time to test it in raid, and probably never will since I stopped playing now (argus is a big joke).

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixark View Post
    I was pretty stoked to play Frost again but it's still just not there. Obliteration isn't enough burst compared to pre-7.3 Breath. It does have really strong sustained cleave, but that really doesn't have a spot in Tomb of Sargeras... at least not for melee.

    Obliteration is an incredibly boring cooldown anyway, I hope they redesign that entire last row. Breath may have not been fun for everyone, but it was strong and different. Compare to Unholy's last row where you have Dark Arbiter, a strong single target nuke that changes how you play- Defile, a very strong AoE talent that is great for dungeons and has some legendary synergy- and Soul Reaper, a cooldown on a 45 second CD that can change your priority on the rest of your spells in order to get the most benefit out of the 21% haste window. Unholy just seems better designed right now.

    Frost needs more than some buffs, I think it needs just some spell changes in order to make it competitive, but more importantly, fun for everyone.
    I agree. As I see it right now for Unholy we have:

    1) Dark Arbiter, the best single target dps but also the most demanding talent to use

    2) Soul reaper, less demanding to use but more versatile (I like it in mythic + for both bosses and trash). And still a very decent single target dps output

    3) Defile for AOE

    They didn't have to change Frost. They should just have balance the spec as unholy is now. For example:

    1) Breath of sindragos, the best single target dps but also the most demanding talent to use

    2) Obliteration, less demanding to use but more versatile. And still a very decent single target dps output.

    3) Some new talent for AOE (Glacial Advance sucks as a tier 100 talent)

    The new Frost spec (7.3) has totally killed Breath of Sindragosa. Why would anybody use a more demanding talent with less dps output. They should have kept Frost as it were and just made sure the obliteration build was viable. It should not be as good as the Breath build for single target, but close to it. The great thing about Unholy right now is that the Soul Reaper is not as good as Dark Arbiter but it is still very viable. It's not completely garbage as Obliteration were in 7.2.5.

  16. #16
    Ideally I would have liked to keep the extended breath spec while also making the other 100 talents viable. Clearly blizz thought otherwise...

    For the 100 talents:

    BOS is somewhat fine. I do miss the extend-breath spec but it still hits hard.

    Obliteration I think needs a damage increase component to go along with it. Something like "obliterate does X % damage as frost/ increased damage while Obliteration is active"

    HRW- To be honest I feel like this talent should have been replaced for its sole purpose was to fuel BOS. Now that you can't link BOS and HRW anymore it kind of just sits there. I am positive HRW won't make it to next expansion.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I agree. As I see it right now for Unholy we have:

    1) Dark Arbiter, the best single target dps but also the most demanding talent to use

    2) Soul reaper, less demanding to use but more versatile (I like it in mythic + for both bosses and trash). And still a very decent single target dps output

    3) Defile for AOE

    They didn't have to change Frost. They should just have balance the spec as unholy is now. For example:

    1) Breath of sindragos, the best single target dps but also the most demanding talent to use

    2) Obliteration, less demanding to use but more versatile. And still a very decent single target dps output.

    3) Some new talent for AOE (Glacial Advance sucks as a tier 100 talent)

    The new Frost spec (7.3) has totally killed Breath of Sindragosa. Why would anybody use a more demanding talent with less dps output. They should have kept Frost as it were and just made sure the obliteration build was viable. It should not be as good as the Breath build for single target, but close to it. The great thing about Unholy right now is that the Soul Reaper is not as good as Dark Arbiter but it is still very viable. It's not completely garbage as Obliteration were in 7.2.5.
    I actually swap to Frost to kill rares with BoS

    the Burst might actually be the highest in game for that specific purpose doing 3.1mil single target burst far higher than Unholy but once Breath is down u plummit.

    atleast Frost BoS can live on for those breif Argus rare kills

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Saybel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baddok21 View Post
    the Burst might actually be the highest in game for that specific purpose doing 3.1mil single target burst far higher than Unholy but once Breath is down u plummit
    You can burst more then that with Unholy.
    RIP Breath of Sindragosa - 23/06/2015 - The day fun died.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Baddok21 View Post
    I actually swap to Frost to kill rares with BoS

    the Burst might actually be the highest in game for that specific purpose doing 3.1mil single target burst far higher than Unholy but once Breath is down u plummit.

    atleast Frost BoS can live on for those breif Argus rare kills
    Sure it is better than nothing.

    But BoS will die in raiding if the dps output is not better compared to the Obliteration build.

    Imo, BoS should be better than Obliteration. However, this does not mean Obliteration should be complete garbage. The problem in 7.2.5 was NOT that the BoS build were too strong. The problem was the Obliteration build not being viable. And then instead of just buffing some talents a bit, they decided to destroy BoS for raiding.

    I think one mistake, Blizzard makes with a lot of specs in the game, is that they forget the correlation between the difficulty of a talent and the dps output. Why use a demanding talent if you gain nothing?

    For example: When using Obliteration, Icy Talons should always give a better dps output compared to Runic Attenuation, as it is more demanding to use. But right now Runic Attenuation is better with a small margin. So why would I bother myself with keeping track of a buff when I gain nothing from it.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2017-09-04 at 10:17 AM.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Sure it is better than nothing.

    But BoS will die in raiding if the dps output is not better compared to the Obliteration build.

    Imo, BoS should be better than Obliteration. However, this does not mean Obliteration should be complete garbage. The problem in 7.2.5 was NOT that the BoS build were too strong. The problem was the Obliteration build not being viable. And then instead of just buffing some talents a bit, they decided to destroy BoS for raiding.

    I think one mistake, Blizzard makes with a lot of specs in the game, is that they forget the correlation between the difficulty of a talent and the dps output. Why use a demanding talent if you gain nothing?

    For example: When using Obliteration, Icy Talons should always give a better dps output compared to Runic Attenuation, as it is more demanding to use. But right now Runic Attenuation is better with a small margin. So why would I bother myself with keeping track of a buff when I gain nothing from it.
    BoS is not even bad on single target, on certain fight lengths it is close/better than Obliteration (2,5/4,5 minute fights for instance - Goroth hc is like this and there are lots of high BoS parses there).

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