Situational awareness or smart planning is somehow taboo now?

[Afrospinach]

Actually a lot of people agree with me. Enough to the point that fewer and fewer people are saying stupid shit like "Women can control if they get pregnant from a rapist or not." Unlike you, WE are changing society. To one where the length of a woman's skirt isn't relevant to rape. Pretty soon we'll have made it all the way up to "We can't expect women to know martial arts and own guns just to go outside."

Because you're the delusional one whose side is constantly losing ground and you think you're "winning".

I am pretty sure the topic is the police spokesperson giving out general advice in the aftermath of a rape, they are not specifically addressing the victim so it is clearly PREVENTATIVE. You generally do not call preventative measures for people who have not been victims victim blaming unless you have some severe malady of the mind. The overwhelming majority of rape cases involve a single victim which makes jogging in pairs very practical advice to avoid it. When the police start to ignore rape victims because they were not jogging in pairs then maybe we can start to take you seriously.

I am not sure how you think your straw manning the shit out of this topic is "changing society" but that is one incredible opinion of yourself you have there.

Even Caitlyn Jenner isn't gonna get it,

Bahaha, considering the company you clearly intend to keep I am surprised you can even bring yourself to say this lol.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I'll admit when I first read this thread, I kind of was thinking Situational Awareness like when you wake up in Bill Cosby's dressing room naked after enjoying pudding pops and you notice you don't think you got the part for whatever one of Rudy Huxtable's friends you were auditioning for wondering how you got into that situation.

Yeah I could say that this would be a good time to talk about trusting Mr Cosby.

[Deleted]

People are fucking idiots and hear what they want to hear. Sure, be outraged, but fact of the matter is that there are rapists out there and unless you catch them in the act, they're kind of hard to spot. So if you could do things to be a less likely victim, why wouldn't you do it?

[turboether]

You should be able to do stuff without fear of being affected by crime.

But this is the real world, and crime happens regardless of whether you take precautions or not.

[PosPosPos]

@Livnthedream Is calling you a hypocrite because you said people shouldn't use violence to solve problems, but in the past you have advocated using violence against Nazis, which is a contradiction unless you think Nazis are not a problem.

Luckily for us, his specific post was:

Well, maybe start with upbringing and education. Stop instilling toxic masculinity into boys so that they stop solving all their problems with violence.

Ergo, it's "stop solving every problem with only violence" and not "all problems must be solved without violence".

Sigh, once again proves the alt-right Nazis were generally incapable of context and thus they come up with ridiculous strawmen out of false equivalencies.

[McTroll]

A lot of men act all offended if you actually practice safety measures around men though.

Then those guys are insecure dolts. In this day and age, you can't go around unprotected. Man, or woman.

[Deleted]

Government and media should stop warning people about incoming hurricane, because it's victim blaming, right.

[Deleted]

Government and media should stop warning people about incoming hurricane, because it's victim blaming, right.

No. But govt. and media can cut the bulls*it about being humanitarians to accept male combat age "refugees" from countries that are no war areas. That or if they can, stop hurricanes. But I don't think they can stop hurricanes yet!

[LMuhlen]

There's an aggressive rapist on the loose, we the police know about it and are working hard to catch him. Meanwhile, please continue living your life as you normally do, don't worry about being extra careful or anything, because if you get raped and/or murdered by him, you can rest assured it was our fault, the police, for not catching him in time and we'll be really sad about it.

[Katchii]

A lot of men act all offended if you actually practice safety measures around men though.

In some situations like this people practicing "safety measures" come across as incredibly rude, hostile and/ or condescending. You can practice safety without being a complete jerk. Normal people get offended when being treated rudely or in a hostile manner.

[ItachiZaku]

Trigger Warning: Fox News Link - http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09...utal-rape.html

Cliff Notes:

- Jogger Badly Beaten & Raped
- Police suggest running in pairs and/or keeping an eye over your shoulder when passing
- People actually get angry at this because they think the police can/should protect every citizen 100% of the time and are omnipotent



Let me guess, taxes increase to pay for more officers. Citizens commence bitching?

Is that usually how this circle is completed?

I thought they wanted equality? Men should also run in pairs.

- - - Updated - - -

Government and media should stop warning people about incoming hurricane, because it's victim blaming, right.

Exactly. One warning is enough. Maybe two, one for the morning news and once for evening. Perhaps a third closer to landfall. Otherwise, that's what the weather channel is for.

[oxymoronic]

A little of column A and a little of column B.

Yes, it is stupid to leave your house unlocked. But it is also illegal to enter a house, uninvited, no matter how you entered it.

But, one is illegal, the other isn't, so the home owners stupidity shouldn't be the cause of the issue, nor be blamed for the outcome. The cause of the issue is someone entered the house unlawfully.

Its a touchy situation.

I think there is also a difference between giving advice, and blaming someone for their ignorance, or just not doing something.

"It is a good idea to lock your house door when you are not home" - Advice
"If you didn't want to get robbed, you should have locked your doors" - Victim blaming.

im no lawyer but does it change the crime being committed? no longer "breaking" and entering if the front door is unlocked.

[Xandrigity]

It's just like drinking and the slippery slope (pardon the pun) of sexual consent issue. No it doesn't mean it's the victims fault if it happens when they are jogging alone. However, there are common sense things to lesson the likelihood of it occurring.

I'm all for prevention instead of finger wagging after the fact trying to ascertain blame.

[Kathandira]

im no lawyer but does it change the crime being committed? no longer "breaking" and entering if the front door is unlocked.

Unlawful entry is a crime. If a stranger walks in your house, even if the door is wide open, he is trespassing on private property. In some states, you have the right to shoot and kill a person who trespasses in your home.

[unbound]

Trigger Warning: Fox News Link - http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09...utal-rape.html

Cliff Notes:

- Jogger Badly Beaten & Raped
- Police suggest running in pairs and/or keeping an eye over your shoulder when passing
- People actually get angry at this because they think the police can/should protect every citizen 100% of the time and are omnipotent



Let me guess, taxes increase to pay for more officers. Citizens commence bitching?

Is that usually how this circle is completed?

There is nothing wrong with the suggestion itself, but if that was their only or primary message, I can understand the criticism. The primary message should be along the lines of "We will hunt the bastard down and prosecute him", the secondary message should be along the lines of "Working with the community to improve awareness and safety", and only then should it come down to "Please run in pairs".

In other words, start thinking about what is likely going on, and stop being triggered by Fox News. In fact, stop reading them all together...there are much better news sources out there.

[D3thray]

Well, I don't mind the changing your mind thing. You're thinking about it now, so you're more likely to change your mind now than say, two weeks from now, that's just how people work.

Anyway, the point was mostly to make a logical comparison it's a two way street. If women can learn to become better defended against rape, men can learn to become less likely to be rapists. Which goes back to my point about a "failed society" and why I was so annoyed with your comment about "we can't control what other people do", because that's exactly what telling women "You are not prepared!" does. It controls how they think, how they visualize the outside world and that in turn will adjust how they approach the outside world and by extension: men. We most certainly can control how people think and behave, that's sort of what society does. Some of it it is voluntary, some of it is involuntary. IE: If declaring yourself a rapist is likely to get you ostracized from society, you're less likely to do it because on the whole, society is good, humans are not naturally solitary creatures.

We can't expect only women to change. That'll never work. We have to expect everyone to change otherwise we'll never change because one side will keep changing and the other side will keep going "Bawwwww why should I!?" and then we'll end up with a deepening sociological split which will lead to social instability. Society can't tolerate gaps. Wage gaps. Income gaps. Social gaps. It leads to divergent viewpoints on how society functions and how society should function, the more those viewpoints diverge, the less likely you are to achieve social solidarity. When that sort of thing happens, you get civil wars, revolutions and all that sort of nasty stuff that can lead to the destruction of a society. We may be the land of free thought, but that's actually a lot more limited than most people realize.

Now, I'm not saying telling women to "Be prepared!" will lead to such a thing, but from the perspective of women, this is just another brick in the wall of social division.

...you'll also have to excuse my game and musical references, I'm a political scientist with an emphasis on theory and social organization. The latter is sort of intractably tied to culture and therefore pop culture.

- - - Updated - - -



Of course the important hole in your argument, or perhaps I should say the "eye" in your stormcloud is that a hurricane is not a person. It doesn't respond to social pressure, it responds to air pressure. Hurricanes don't get sent to "storm prison" when they tear down someone's house or flood several major cities.

People on the other hand respond to social pressure. They get send to jail when they break laws. And sending Bob to jail discourages Joe from breaking the law, because Joe enjoys the benefits of being a member of society, and Bob is deprived of those benefits. So when when are wagging our finger at women for not taking whatever "precautions" we've thought up this time, what we are telling Bob and Joe is that they can be less punished for breaking the law. That, if they suggest that her titties were too on display, her skirt was too short, that they can absolve themselves of some level of responsibility. And what Joe and Bob demonstrate to Bill and Frank and Ted is that they too can get away with more.

Eventually the idea that too much booby or not enough burka...I mean pants...is a reason to legally remove blame from Bob and Joe. Bob and Joe aren't so bad! Julie's legs were just too darn sexy! Those poor little men just couldn't help it when their weiners drained the blood from their brain!

Do you think these arguments sound silly? Good. Because that's what I hear when I see cops making statements about how Julie should have worn heavier clothing. About how Julie should have drunk less. About how Julie should have carried a gun on her. Because what I hear isn't "Bad Julie, BAD!" what I hear is "Hey come on, Bob's an okay guy, he just raped her a little bit, I mean have you seen Julie's legs? Wouldn't you rape those legs?"

That's what victim blaming is. Normalizing rape because the victim is really the criminal and the criminal is really the victim.

In what way is rape normalized? It's illegal. It's a giant social taboo. You get arrested. The media publicizes rape cases so we're all aware of just how much shit will hit the fan if we are accused of rape. To claim there is a justification in US culture for rape being legal is almost literally like burying your head in the sand, putting your fingers in your ears, and crying LALALALALALALALALA at the top of your lungs.

I have a mother and sister. My sister has told me how unsafe she's been made to feel over rape and sexual assault. But we talked like adults and the conclusion we jointly came to was she felt unsafe because she'd been taught to feel unsafe. Taught by these ever increasing antics and hysteria over 'rape culture'.

Rape is bad. People get raped. It's never ok when someone is raped. Ever. But if your concern is about how women feel about that prospect, then the clear answer is to tone it down. And note, that's not me saying we should stop prevention efforts. That's me saying the rhetoric over rape apologia and the falacious 1 in 5 factoids need to be turned down to maybe 7 instead of 11.

[helebelemon]

Welcome to 2017 where for nearly two decades, the internet has increased the voice of a few select minorities and articles and they've suddenly (supposedly) become the majority.

[Thoughtful Trolli]

It's the same discussion we've had for the last years. It always comes down to the same arguments. Personally I don't believe it's victim-blaming, but this has been debated to death.

It's probably debated to death because one side is right and one side is wrong.

You're on the wrong side. I'm going to try to correct you.

If it bothers you that you're wrong and that I'm correcting you, then I'm right about how "correcting" is just another way to harass people.

That's why modern things suck shit and wastewater: they banned all the basic violence and hate, so evil shits like me just increase our douchebaggery to compensate for our small dicks.

[Deleted]

It's probably debated to death because one side is right and one side is wrong.

You're on the wrong side. I'm going to try to correct you.

If it bothers you that you're wrong and that I'm correcting you, then I'm right about how "correcting" is just another way to harass people.

That's why modern things suck shit and wastewater: they banned all the basic violence and hate, so evil shits like me just increase our douchebaggery to compensate for our small dicks.

Nice name.

My side is wrong? So thinking that women should be careful, but that police should still protect them, is wrong?