Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdef View Post
    I'm a self labeled progressive/socialist.

    But I find this funny. Okay, fine. You compete for the worst paying jobs with illegals. Now, you get to have those shitty paying jobs, so I guess at least you're getting paid? But now you hate yourself because that job sucks, and it drains your soul, underpays you, and your QoL is still shit and are likely depressed.

    We definitely are running into an improvement here.
    I guess that's why you're a Socialist, because you don't understand economics at all.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ooid View Post
    Why do people act like Mexico is an apocalyptic wasteland and that deporting illegal immigrants back there is a death sentence?
    It is weird. Everyone gets mad at Trump for talking shit about Mexico and yet people will die if they can't escape it fast enough.

  3. #23
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    In Security Watching...
    Posts
    43,750
    Yes deport all white supremacists and keep the immigrants. The white supremacist can colonize Antarctic.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Rewriting the 14th amendment is going to be a deal breaker. Liberals will not go for it, and conservatives will have to go against their basic beliefs to push it. The 14th Amendment is quite possible the most important one that was added after the original bill of rights.
    It doesn't take a rewrite. There's never been a court ruling that definitively interprets the power to end birthright citizenship by statute as beyond the power of Congress; pass the law and force the issue.

    I think people would find that even very hardline immigration conservatives would take a pretty conciliatory stance about those already in the US if some serious cut-the-shit steps were taken on border enforcement and clipping off chain migration, i.e. from now on e-v-e-r-y-b-o-d-y has to do it the right way.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Middle solution is the only solution.

    The left wants free open boarders for everyone and their moms with no accountability.

    The right wants to imprison them or boot them ALL.
    The left wants to kill illegals and cartels reasons for coming here while enforcing current immigration laws. The right currently wants to repeat history over and over again. The reasonable part gets pushed to the back of the crowd.
    Last edited by Varvara Spiros Gelashvili; 2017-09-08 at 11:17 AM.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  6. #26
    The freaking left doesn't say ''open god dam borders'' that's nothing but a strawman argument right-wing lunatics are making because making up stuff is how they argue.

    Immigrants (not just US) alll over the world have contributed more towards society they live in then the avg citizens of that country. You can call them unskilled or whatever but that most people that complain about immigrants couldn't do the jobs they do even if they get paid more.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by nanook12 View Post
    The right is increasingly pursuing a heavy deportation pro-nationalist agenda, and the left wants open borders. However, there is a middle ground which I believe will solve current and future immigration issues.

    First the problems:

    1.) Immigrants, especially the undocumented, compete for jobs and lower the wages for Americas poorest. They flat out do. I will not argue this point with anyone. Go read the plethora of studies and evidence about these fact from Google scholar. This is the main problem and why immigration must be controlled.

    2.) Undocumented immigrants do contribute to the social security fund which they will never see themselves; however, the percentage of undocumented immigrants that draw from social programs (such as food stamps and welfare) is significantly higher than average Americans. Some say that "it is impossible for illegals to draw from social programs because they are not citizens." Well my response is that they have figured out ways around that obstacle. One of the popular ways is to have a lot of children. If two undocumented immigrants pair up and have children together on U.S. soil, then (due to the 14th amendment of the constitution) their children are full American citizens and able to take advantage of all the benefits. This fits with studies showing that undocumented immigrants have a higher birthrate than average Americans. In short, undocumented immigrants have more children in order to exploit the 14th amendment and take advantage of social programs otherwise they would not be able to survive on their low wage jobs alone. Not only does this put the stress of higher taxation on native Americans in order to support the increased load of undocumented immigrant that are dependent on social programs, but their children need school lunches, medical care, college grants, and they overload classrooms in k-12 and universities. This is why I disagree with the argument of "immigrants are only a boon to our tax system" because at the least they they draw out just as much as they put back in which makes it a stalemate.

    4.) Over immigration and the undocumented create more inequality. The only organization that benefit from undocumented immigration are corporations and super wealthy individuals. This is happening at a time when America already has a bad income inequality problem to due a corrupt system favoring corporations and the wealthy. Senior economist Dr George Borjas has calculated that immigration causes a transfer of $500 billion annually from the poor and middle class to the rich and corporations. Nearly 3% of the U.S. GDP every single year.

    5.) Immigrants do boost our GDP. If all undocumented and immigrants on work visas were immediately deported, America would lose a sizable chunk of GDP initially and continue to lose GDP until Americans procreated enough to fill that gap which would take many years. This goes to the side of immigrants. If they were all immediately deported, then America would likely no longer be the biggest GDP in the world which is the thing that maintains our spot as a global super power.


    The solution:

    1.) Grant amnesty to those that are already here because we simply cannot afford to deport them and drastically cut our GDP.

    2.) After amnesty is granted, then border security and legislation to stem the tide of immigration are both massively increased. Our country simply cannot take in the entire world population. Maybe it can from a sheer size point of view, but it cannot support everyone from a jobs and living standards perspective. Immigration must me limited. Building the border wall and militarizing it with patrols is one method, but drastically increasing fines to anyone who hires undocumented labor, and rewriting the 14th amendment to include that, "only the children of legal citizens are assured the right that their offspring is also a full citizen." Further immigration to the U.S. would be based on a merit system whom gets in based on our current countries needs, their credentials (doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientist, etc), and of course an evaluation of their criminal record. In a sense, smart immigration based on our countries current needs. Much like many other nations already implement.

    3.) This is the most humane way to handle things for both sides. Many under the DACA have never known another country, and I can't help to think that deporting them is pretty cruel. Poor native American citizens would get what they want because immigration and their high birthrates would slow down significantly, and plentiful jobs and growing wages would begin to sprout in time.

    This is the middle of the road immigration solution for both left and right.
    The immigration solution is simple. Fine the shit out of a anyone who hires someone illegal, make it not cost effective for the risk. If Americans need workers make it easier to get work Visa's.

  8. #28
    Theres only one solution to immigration....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ML-f34bmGw

    You're welcome <3

    But in seriousness, people with criminal records shouldnt even be allowed, also, dental checks MUST be made a thing before anyone can get through, their legal age MUST be exposed and that is not inhumane, they must be legitimately who they are.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainV View Post
    Theres only one solution to immigration....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ML-f34bmGw

    You're welcome <3

    But in seriousness, people with criminal records shouldnt even be allowed, also, dental checks MUST be made a thing before anyone can get through, their legal age MUST be exposed and that is not inhumane, they must be legitimately who they are.
    Are you talking about refugees? Because last I checked age wasn't a problem here.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    It doesn't take a rewrite. There's never been a court ruling that definitively interprets the power to end birthright citizenship by statute as beyond the power of Congress; pass the law and force the issue.

    I think people would find that even very hardline immigration conservatives would take a pretty conciliatory stance about those already in the US if some serious cut-the-shit steps were taken on border enforcement and clipping off chain migration, i.e. from now on e-v-e-r-y-b-o-d-y has to do it the right way.
    There has also never really been a serious attempt (that I can recall) to end birthright citizenship. It would require a major change to immigration laws that are over 200 years old (1791 and 1795). It would also certainly be challenged, and I see no way for the SCOTUS to rule to limit the expansive coverage of the 14th Amendment. Section 1 of the 14th Amendment is quite clear, and doesn't leave a whole lot up for interpretation.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Just don't ever feel pressured to take people from other countries in. Governments can certainly allow people to stay for a ficed period of time on a workd-visa for example, but then it's time to go at the end of that period.

    At some point you gotta wonder if you want the world world to look like a third world country and just give away everything that was build in the West since WW2.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Again immigration isn't a problem. It's idiots that think they should be holding 1950s jobs with no education and trying to make a 21st century living out of it. The issue has been that people just will not educate themselves and will at the same time vote for people who gives vague promises of "Build the wall!"... "Bringing back Jobs..." and all that crap. Again solution is education and stop living in dream world.
    You do realize most people have IQs around 100 right? No matter how educated, they don't bring much to the knowledge economy.

    It's pretty funny that Mexicans living in their own country is inhumane. I'd kinda like to have my own country again. Hell, I would TRADE the Mexicans. Mexico ran by the American right is called Texas.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •