Canadian Dad let his kids ride the bus alone and it sparked a national debate

[Tennis]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...al-debate.html

VANCOUVER—A Vancouver father says a “hugely disappointing” decision by social workers to stop his kids from riding the bus to school alone is robbing them of their independence.

Adrian Crook says he spent two years training his four eldest children, ages seven to 11, to take the 45-minute public transit trip. The case is sparking debate about whether expectations about parental supervision have gone too far.

“Your job as a parent is to raise your kids to not need you eventually,” said Crook, who has five children.

“You don’t want to rush them through that process, as much for them as it is heartbreaking for you. But if they’re comfortable taking on certain risks, it’s sort of incumbent upon you to gauge whether they’re ready.”

He said the 13-kilometre trip begins with a bus stop visible from his downtown condominium and ends with a stop directly in front of their North Vancouver school, and the children always travel with a cellphone that allows him to track their location.

Crook said his heart sank when the Children’s Ministry called saying a tip had been received about the kids taking transit alone and that an investigation would follow.

“It was pretty shocking,” he said. “I just kind of hoped that they would see the bigger picture.”

He said he wanted his kids to take the bus because it’s safer and more sustainable than driving and, crucially, it teaches them independence. A distant reason was to save money by using public transit, he said.

After a weeks-long investigation, the ministry concluded that children under the age of 10 cannot be left unsupervised — whether on a bus, riding bikes around the neighbourhood or walking to the corner store, he said.

Crook shares custody with the kids’ mother, who lives closer to the school, so they were taking the bus half the time while staying with him. Now they can’t even walk to school from her home, he said.

He said the ministry said its decision was based on a British Columbia court ruling that found an eight-year-old could not be left at home alone. It also said that in other provinces, the legal age to be unsupervised is much higher, including 16 in Ontario, he said.

In a statement, the ministry said it cannot comment on specific cases but when it receives a report about an unattended child, social workers assess the kid’s safety and the parent’s ability to provide care before taking the most appropriate course of action.

“If social workers determine there is a risk to a child (or) to children, their first step is to immediately reduce that risk,” it said.

There is no precise legal age at which kids can be left unsupervised, nor is there a specific ministerial policy, the ministry added.

The Ontario Ministry of Children and Youth Services did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the claim that kids under 16 cannot be left unattended in the province.

Crook wrote about his situation on his blog, “5 Kids 1 Condo,” and is now raising money online to mount a legal challenge.

Mariana Brussoni, a population and public health professor at the University of British Columbia, said the case highlights how social expectations for parents have changed in recent decades.

“You wouldn’t in a million years dream of, 20 years ago, this sort of story happening,” she said. “Nobody raised an eyebrow when kids were walking to school or taking the bus or getting themselves around.”

Overprotective parenting has become normal and is harmful to children, who need to take risks and explore being on their own in order to build self-confidence, she said.

Brussoni said riding a bus is safer than being in a car.

There were no deaths of children 14 and under on buses in Canada between 2009 and 2013, according to the most recent available data from Statistics Canada. During the same period, 106 children died inside private vehicles.

So what do you think? Is this overkill? Or is the province right to ensure that kids are safe from predators.

[Endus]

7 and 11 years old. Public transit, not a school bus. Yeah, I see their point. It's about supervision and guardianship; he's not performing those duties.

It's like how teaching your 6 year old to not play around the pool can still get you a visit from social workers if you leave your kid outside by the pool all afternoon without being there to watch them. They're kids; they aren't safe to watch themselves at that age.

[Zelk]

this is completely normal over here, I got the bus on my own to school all the time from about 8 years old. Before that I went with my brother and sister until they moved to high school

[Sunseeker]

In Ontario you can't leave a 15-year-old home alone? Jesus.

I mean it really depends on the type of neighborhood you live in and how smart your kids are. Some kids probably should never be unsupervised until they're adults. Some kids can handle mature tasks at a young age and operate independently well. Every parent thinks their kids are gods gift to the world so I certainly wouldn't expect a parent to be impartial, but like, why can't the kids take a schoolbus? Does Canada not have those? Why are they riding public transit?

[Daedius]

Nanny state much? This over-protective nonsense is making a lot of pussies today who can't think for themselves...

Sure, might warrant it in an unsafe neighbourhood... but generally speaking? Fucking hell... I'd hate to be a kid today.

[Super Kami Dende]

I used to get myself from Home to School by myself from the age of 8. My parents worked and I wasn't an incompetent kid that didn't understand simple road rules or directions.

Took me about 35mins.

Also comparing staying at home alone vs travelling is fucking retarded.

[Very Tired]

The fact that this is a debate does not shine a good light on Canada at all. Shame!

[Super Kami Dende]

7 and 11 years old. Public transit, not a school bus. Yeah, I see their point. It's about supervision and guardianship; he's not performing those duties.

It's like how teaching your 6 year old to not play around the pool can still get you a visit from social workers if you leave your kid outside by the pool all afternoon without being there to watch them. They're kids; they aren't safe to watch themselves at that age.

All those rules does is raise a generation of Children that can't think or act for themselves until they Adults. Who then fail at simple tasks whilst being an Adult and blame everyone else.

Oh wait it seems we are already there.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

in toronto there are kids around that age all over the sub ways buses and street cars alone.

[Alvito]

Hell when I was a kid I flew from LA to Boston making 2 lay overs by myself. I was 9 or 10.

[Freighter]

7 and 11 years old. Public transit, not a school bus. Yeah, I see their point. It's about supervision and guardianship; he's not performing those duties.

It's like how teaching your 6 year old to not play around the pool can still get you a visit from social workers if you leave your kid outside by the pool all afternoon without being there to watch them. They're kids; they aren't safe to watch themselves at that age.

At 11 you should be able to be left to use it alone though.

[Rennadrel]

7 and 11 years old. Public transit, not a school bus. Yeah, I see their point. It's about supervision and guardianship; he's not performing those duties.

It's like how teaching your 6 year old to not play around the pool can still get you a visit from social workers if you leave your kid outside by the pool all afternoon without being there to watch them. They're kids; they aren't safe to watch themselves at that age.

Nonsense, I took a city bus to school alone when I was 12 years old and never had an issue. Didn't help that the school board was dumb and had two schools within a few blocks of one another and would offer bus service to one but not the other that was further away, and I wound up transferring from one that was closer to home to another in the vicinity but they would not bus students there.

[Independent voter]

They don't have crime in Canada.

[oxymoronic]

7 and 11 years old. Public transit, not a school bus. Yeah, I see their point. It's about supervision and guardianship; he's not performing those duties.

It's like how teaching your 6 year old to not play around the pool can still get you a visit from social workers if you leave your kid outside by the pool all afternoon without being there to watch them. They're kids; they aren't safe to watch themselves at that age.

lol what kind of sheltered life did you live? 7years old is 2nd grade, fully capable of riding a public bus and with their 6th grade sibling to help keep an eye on things. some kids are advanced and were not spoiled as children, something many people on this forum do not understand and cannot.

- - - Updated - - -

All those rules does is raise a generation of Children that can't think or act for themselves until they Adults. Who then fail at simple tasks whilst being an Adult and blame everyone else.

Oh wait it seems we are already there.

i guess you can say he was born that way. always tries to find the rational reason for his political views/beliefs. worst case scenario the 11yr old decides he wants to get off at the wrong stop and brings his siblings. Then after that some random bad guy, lets call him Endos, decides to kidnap and kill them. how likely is that scenario? and this guy says he lives by occam's razor.

[Tennis]

The fact that this is a debate does not shine a good light on Canada at all. Shame!

Wrong. Canada cares about its kids thus why it is a national debate. Get your facts straight.

[MisterBigglez]

The father spent 2 years teaching them to take the bus. That is more than enough time.

When I was 8 years old, I was already going into town to get milk and a newspaper for my dad as well as getting the bus to visit my grandparents when I would stay the night and my parents couldn't drive me there. My parents didn't just throw me in the deep end, they started off by dropping me off at the shop and waiting outside and gradually built up from there. Same with the bus.

[Stop Pretending]

" national debate ". Suuuurrrreeeeee.

[Deleted]

7 and 11 years old. Public transit, not a school bus. Yeah, I see their point. It's about supervision and guardianship; he's not performing those duties.

It's like how teaching your 6 year old to not play around the pool can still get you a visit from social workers if you leave your kid outside by the pool all afternoon without being there to watch them. They're kids; they aren't safe to watch themselves at that age.

Then those kids where raised to be pretty dumb and careless. Kids here walk long distances to school starting at the age of 6, or ride their bikes. This is completely normal behaviour and SAFE.

Stomp pampering children, no wonder they are getting spoilt and incapable of acting on their own.

[IIamaKing]

Happened in the states not to long ago, some mom let a 9 year old ride the subway, many helicopter parents lost their shit.

[eillas]

Nanny state much? This over-protective nonsense is making a lot of pussies today who can't think for themselves...

Sure, might warrant it in an unsafe neighbourhood... but generally speaking? Fucking hell... I'd hate to be a kid today.

more like I don't trust a 7 year old to be out alone going on buses. First graders are not competent enough to be left alone in public without supervision..