7.0: M+15 complete, 7.3: M+15 complete

[slime]

I was on OPs side here because I too thought this was just lazy development. But the posters have shown me the light... and indeed unless there was a way to push the + level up fast than 3 at a time, I cannot imagine pushing a key to +30 or +50.

[Arainie]

The Mythic+ system could quite possibly be the most terribly implemented WoW system of all time. We are over one year into this expansion, over 100 item levels higher than launch, doing many times more dps than launch, have fully fleshed out artifacts, yet we are still struggling on the same keystone levels as we were at launch.

It makes absolutely no sense. The scaling the HP of these dungeons has been inelegent, lazy and uninspired. And worst of all, it's demotivating to know that your progress is being stripped down every patch.

I really hope that the Mythic+ system is either completely revamped or better yet scrapped for 8.0. Because people are not going to stick around for another expansion of constant HP buffs to dungeons every patch just for the sake of buffing them.

Why does the number on the keystone make it worthless?
It doesn't change anything but your own personal perception of power scaling. I for one prefer to keep the keystones scaling the way they do now, I'd be completely annoyed if I had to level a keystone from 10 to 25 just to get my weekly done at any point.

Keep it the way it is, it's one of the best additions ever to WoW!

[tikcol]

He's sad he can't complete a +15 in time because they keep buffing it. Sorry

[lonely zergling]

I asked what affixes cause unavoidable oneshots, most of which you list are not oneshots and are not affixes.

I think he means tyrannical affix. Tyrannical just causes the bosses to reach the "unavoidable oneshot" level faster but you reach that level on fortified too a few keystone levels higher, as player hp doesnt scale as much as the boss ability dmg.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I have to admit I was over this problem before I knew it was a problem.

[ReD-EyeD]

LFG Halls of Valor +729 (pushing to 840)

Op just can't get +15 skin, right?

[glowpipe]

It's a form of character progression just like item level. Being able to complete higher level keys symbolises your character getting better and stronger. Struggling on the same keystone level as you did at launch feels like you haven't made any progress at all in the last 12 months.

What they're doing is equivalent to lowering everybody's item level to 800 every patch just to keep the dungeons relevant. Not fun.

but you are not struggling on the same keystone. A 15 now is like 30-40 from the beginning.

And also you want extra content we can do to be scrapped because of a number that doesn't matter at all ? Great plan. Make the game even worse to suit your ego

[Deleted]

but you are not struggling on the same keystone. A 15 now is like 30-40 from the beginning.

I was on OPs side here because I too thought this was just lazy development. But the posters have shown me the light... and indeed unless there was a way to push the + level up fast than 3 at a time, I cannot imagine pushing a key to +30 or +50.

A current +15 equals a +28 in 7.0.

[lonely zergling]

7.3 +20 was done intime this week so stop whining dudes. Everything is possible!

[SirReal]

But you get a higher item level from a 15 now than back in 15. A higher item level is literally character progression.

This is the answer. Please read it OP. /thread

[glowpipe]

A current +15 equals a +28 in 7.0.

Close enough

[azurrei]

I get what the OP is saying, but they are looking at it the wrong way. I think this is a promotion problem Blizzard needs to fix for next expansion...WoW patches are essentially "SEASONS" for M+...we are now on Season 4. Think of each season as a reset.

[Frolk]

The Mythic+ system could quite possibly be the most terribly implemented WoW system of all time. We are over one year into this expansion, over 100 item levels higher than launch, doing many times more dps than launch, have fully fleshed out artifacts, yet we are still struggling on the same keystone levels as we were at launch.

It makes absolutely no sense. The scaling the HP of these dungeons has been inelegent, lazy and uninspired. And worst of all, it's demotivating to know that your progress is being stripped down every patch.

I really hope that the Mythic+ system is either completely revamped or better yet scrapped for 8.0. Because people are not going to stick around for another expansion of constant HP buffs to dungeons every patch just for the sake of buffing them.

Its to keep the lower lvl keystones relevant, if we had kept the release HP versions of 2-15, NOBODY would bother, as loot would be like 50ilvls below what u can get from WQs

[Mercane]

7.3 +20 was done intime this week so stop whining dudes. Everything is possible!

A specific + 20 with specific affixes.

Saying because one specific dungeon can be completed, all of the dungeons are of a similar difficultly is about as disingenuous as you can get. I personally don't see a problem with them rebalancing the dungeons each content patch, except for maybe the timing- increase the difficulty with the opening of the new raid tier, not 3 months before hand.

[Cracked]

A current +15 equals a +28 in 7.0.

Dunno which retard made the sheet, but it's wrong. The increases were +30% and in 7.2.5 only the multiplier changed, not the base.

[Deleted]

Dungeons, unlike raids, are intended to be relevant throughout the entire expansion, that's why their health and damage keeps getting moved up to keep up with us. If they did not, and expected us to keep running higher keys, well, imagine the number of runs you would need to run to bring up a new key from say 2-10 to 40-50+. Not only that but the keys people had would be scattered all over the place far more than now, in general it would just be a pain and people like you would come here and demand that Blizzard allow us to queue for the dungeons selecting the level we want to run.

+15 is meant to loosely refer to a certain difficulty regardless of when in the expansion you attempt it, it's not entirely accurate as right now it's a lot more difficult than it will be in 7.3.5, but it's within an acceptable range. Similar to when a new raid is released you expect heroic to be a certain difficulty, and not far above/below it.

Mythic plus might not be for you, and that's fine, similar to PvP an pet battles aren't for everyone. To me it's best thing they have ever added, and right now it's a lot more fun than raiding.

[Halobob87]

I don't see the problem.

[pkm]

Just because the number isn't going higher that doesn't mean there is no progression.

[lonely zergling]

A specific + 20 with specific affixes.

Saying because one specific dungeon can be completed, all of the dungeons are of a similar difficultly is about as disingenuous as you can get. I personally don't see a problem with them rebalancing the dungeons each content patch, except for maybe the timing- increase the difficulty with the opening of the new raid tier, not 3 months before hand.

There is more than one dungeon that is doable this week +20 in time. Upper Kara is the easiest key this week thats true (the group could have 2 chested it if they didnt wipe at last boss lul). Arcway was also almost done intime on 20. Its possible.

Most people wont do 20's anyway and this thread is about completing 15's. All dungeons are rather easy doable on +15 regardless the affixes. I like what blizzard does to mythic +. Keeps the dungeons relevant over the expansion.

The way they do the rebalancing also acts as a gear catch up system they give out free 915 items in +10 dungeons with weekly 935 chests. When raid opens the reward cap increases to 15 again making it stay relevant. Good system imho.

[BiggestNoob]

This is a usual balancing issue which is not solvable. It equals the system in D3. Even with the best gear available specific classes have their own difficulty cap. If you have classes which have the defensives to survive mechanics at which 80% of all the other classes would die, its not an affix or boss mechanic issues, its an class balancing issue. But tbh the class balance in m+ content is fine actually (yeah, even dps warriors have weaknesses in m+ content).

It's easily solvable. This isn't D3 where people can get reliable 100% uptime on 99%+ damage mitigation. You just get rid of Tyrannical and lower the outgoing damage scaling on M+ and make the real point of M+ to beat the timer, not to survive mechanics that do 7 million+ damage at 20. The current design over-emphasizes the value of battle rezzes, classes with immunes and physical iframes, blood DK, and holy paladin. MM hunters are total shit in high keys, for instance. If your goal wasn't to work around 1-shots or rez through them, there would be no real substantial advantage except for classes that are clearly overpowered (warriors, balance druid), and it's Blizzard's issue that in this expansion for some reason they refuse to nerf clearly overpowered specs, including letting S2M completely and utterly annihilate an entire raid, even though it was a known issue for the entirety of beta.

I asked what affixes cause unavoidable oneshots, most of which you list are not oneshots and are not affixes.

Tyrannical/Fortified along with damage scaling dramatically faster than player health results in this. There's a reason the highest keys on tyrannical tend to be 1-2 levels lower than fortified, because you cross the "gear doesn't matter, you just die" threshold sooner since boss abilities contain far more 1-shot abilities than trash.

I was on OPs side here because I too thought this was just lazy development. But the posters have shown me the light... and indeed unless there was a way to push the + level up fast than 3 at a time, I cannot imagine pushing a key to +30 or +50.

You don't have to. You just have to do a key, then next week you have one about the same level. If keys slowly inch up to +40 over the course of a year, this is a non-issue. Nobody is going to get 5 people together and push a +2 key up to +40. Nobody even does that to +20 currently. If you're in a group doing high keys, and you say have a +8, your key doesn't get done. You'll have to pug a +8, +11, +13, +14/15, and then maybe a decent group will run it.

I get what the OP is saying, but they are looking at it the wrong way. I think this is a promotion problem Blizzard needs to fix for next expansion...WoW patches are essentially "SEASONS" for M+...we are now on Season 4. Think of each season as a reset.

There's no point though, it doesn't have the problems PvP/D3 has that necessitates a season. If you did a +23 in tier X, then in tier X+1 you're going to be doing +25 or +26, it doesn't matter what the records were before, it'll be trivial to push beyond the absolute maximum of the previous tier, acting as a natural reset. The only reason Blizzard is doing this is because someone wants +15 to be the "moderate key with max reward" cap, and it's completely arbitrary.

Because then everyone and their mothers would have the KM achievement and cheapen even further the acquisition of the +15 balance of power skin tint. I mean, it was a joke to get it in 7.1.5 and 7.2.5, and it will be again in 7.3.5, but it would be 10 times easier if they just kept increasing the ilvl cap, without rebalancing the difficulties. Also, coming back to the game/or alts having to build up keys from +2 all the way to Keystone +48 sounds like it would suck ass really hard.

It'd be really hard to add more achievements. Basically they'd need to hire someone who demands a $500k salary because it's unpossible.