Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Heroic kill times heavily exaggerate the effects of lust and are skewed towards bust classes. Goroth is also an exceptionally bad boss to consider in heroic given most groups will kill it around 2:20-2:50 which substantially inflates Havoc DPS. In the aggregate, Havoc is still the second worst in heroic, and this is also true in normal for similar reasons.

    In actual content where bosses take a while to kill, it's by far the worst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    This. You don't have to worry about T21 for another 2 months.
    So I have to worry about 2 months of being the worst DPS, then I get to "upgrade" to being even worse relative to everyone else? I guess I don't have to worry about being the worst for 2 months, you're right, nor being the worst in T21 either. Glad you pointed that out. Oh and guilds preparing for T21 now all aware of DH being the meme shit tier class? Nope, don't have to worry about T21 at all until the day it comes out.

  2. #42
    Immortal Saverem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Old New New York
    Posts
    7,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    So I have to worry about 2 months of being the worst DPS, then I get to "upgrade" to being even worse relative to everyone else? I guess I don't have to worry about being the worst for 2 months, you're right, nor being the worst in T21 either. Glad you pointed that out. Oh and guilds preparing for T21 now all aware of DH being the meme shit tier class? Nope, don't have to worry about T21 at all until the day it comes out.
    Thing is;

    If you're in a casual guild, then your guild won't care which spec you play.

    If you're in a top end guild then you already have several other characters to fall back on when T21 comes out.


    So why do you care? You either already have your other alts you are keeping geared in case this happens or you're in a guild that won't really care what you play as long as you enjoy playing it.

    If you're in a casual guild that sits you for playing a Havoc and are still like 3/7M, then GTFO that trash guild.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  3. #43
    At least with t21 we will destroy m+ and not even give a shit about mechanics or affixes

  4. #44
    Brewmaster scarecrowz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,418
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronovey View Post
    This. All major tuning done this expansion so far was done during 7.1.5 and 7.2.5 with hotfixes going out the week after as Mythic unlocked for the raids to "fix" outlying specs one way or the other slightly.

    And even if they don't buff the shit out of you, there's always going to be a bottom of the meter. Someone has to be there and Havoc has been doing pretty damn well for the first few raids so it's not the end of the world if they aren't topping meters for the last couple.
    Is that why they promised us major changes in 7.2.5 and then scrapped them all 5 days before the patch released? Leaving us to rot for another 2-6 months?

    I don't know why people place faith in this company. Its retarded.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    Thing is;

    If you're in a casual guild, then your guild won't care which spec you play.

    If you're in a top end guild then you already have several other characters to fall back on when T21 comes out.


    So why do you care? You either already have your other alts you are keeping geared in case this happens or you're in a guild that won't really care what you play as long as you enjoy playing it.

    If you're in a casual guild that sits you for playing a Havoc and are still like 3/7M, then GTFO that trash guild.
    Your typical Blizzard defender.

    "Bro you're not in a top10 guild so whyyyyyyy do you even careee broooooooooooooooo"

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ysho View Post
    You can't argue the facts, bub. Several people have linked the aggregate of all mythic parses in TOS so I won't do it again. DH is the lowest DPS CLASS in TOS boss encounters, period. Not quite the lowest SPEC, and not quite the lowest in a pure ST scenario, but we have no other option than havoc.
    But single target is much more important than AOE/cleave. And being very mobile and having an immunity to soak stuff is also very important.

    By your logic rogues are a midpack spec.... which is ridivilous considering they are the best melee in TOS. Every average rogue currently can join a top raid....

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    But single target is much more important than AOE/cleave. And being very mobile and having an immunity to soak stuff is also very important.

    By your logic rogues are a midpack spec.... which is ridivilous considering they are the best melee in TOS. Every average rogue currently can join a top raid....
    I think you should take a step back and re think what you are saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    Heroic kill times heavily exaggerate the effects of lust and are skewed towards bust classes. Goroth is also an exceptionally bad boss to consider in heroic given most groups will kill it around 2:20-2:50 which substantially inflates Havoc DPS. In the aggregate, Havoc is still the second worst in heroic, and this is also true in normal for similar reasons.

    In actual content where bosses take a while to kill, it's by far the worst.

    So I have to worry about 2 months of being the worst DPS, then I get to "upgrade" to being even worse relative to everyone else? I guess I don't have to worry about being the worst for 2 months, you're right, nor being the worst in T21 either. Glad you pointed that out. Oh and guilds preparing for T21 now all aware of DH being the meme shit tier class? Nope, don't have to worry about T21 at all until the day it comes out.
    We are not "by far" the worst ... We were below middle before today and got now buffed a bit. Lets just wait and see how the buffs & crucible affects us..

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    Thing is;

    If you're in a casual guild, then your guild won't care which spec you play.

    If you're in a top end guild then you already have several other characters to fall back on when T21 comes out.


    So why do you care? You either already have your other alts you are keeping geared in case this happens or you're in a guild that won't really care what you play as long as you enjoy playing it.

    If you're in a casual guild that sits you for playing a Havoc and are still like 3/7M, then GTFO that trash guild.
    I always laughed on such posts, like boomkin makes 2x more DPS than you, but why do you care? You play in casual guild!!!!1111oneone

    Man, even most casual of casualest guilds want top DPS in their raid. Ofc you can be super skilled and outDPS everyone in your raid, but why you must push buttons like mad when that boomkin facerolling on keyboard watching porn in the same time and having same DPS as yours? Is it fair? Now imagine two casual guys with equal skill - boomking and DH - there will be same 2x times difference. Why Raid Leader would pick that DH? Is it fair?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Is that why they promised us major changes in 7.2.5 and then scrapped them all 5 days before the patch released? Leaving us to rot for another 2-6 months?

    I don't know why people place faith in this company. Its retarded.
    Leave those "I PUSH STARFAL AND GIT 100500 DPZ!" guys, it is pointless to talk to them. It is easy to argue when your class is easily outdpsing everyone.

  9. #49
    Herald of the Titans Skayth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Backwards Country
    Posts
    2,731
    If demonic is so far behind after the first few weeks, you can expect a buff in a hot fix. But thats with a few weeks of us being last.

    As it is, I dont care. Once i get the set, Im going to full on go demonic, and not look back. I much prefer that spec than the chaos blades spec.

  10. #50
    The Patient Synthium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Osijek, Croatia
    Posts
    289
    Quote Originally Posted by Lostprophet View Post
    We are not "by far" the worst ... We were below middle before today and got now buffed a bit. Lets just wait and see how the buffs & crucible affects us..
    It doesn't matter we got buffed when everyone else got buffed aswell. Some even top performing specs like Sub - they got 1,5% buff too. The buff didn't happen because they think the classes themselves needed buffs (the 9% WW buff shows they have absolutely no clue what they are doing, as WW monk played right can absolutely obliterate everything in sight, ending the boss fights from 1st to 3rd place on dps, no matter the scenario), but because our crucible scaling apparently wasn't as high as for example mages.

    Source for WW: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...ncrest/padmonk
    This is a guy from my server whose stream I follow. Absolutely insane player and you can even watch his VoD's to see for yourself
    In the dark rain the grey mountains sing
    A sad song of winter and the howling wind
    Visions of the past in the haunting dreams
    Under the dead sky, under the withered trees

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    But single target is much more important than AOE/cleave. And being very mobile and having an immunity to soak stuff is also very important.

    By your logic rogues are a midpack spec.... which is ridivilous considering they are the best melee in TOS. Every average rogue currently can join a top raid....
    you DO realize DH isnt even that strong ST anymore thanks to mastery and dinnerbell nerfs, right? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps speaks for itself, middle of the pack overall and 9th out of 12 classses on boss damage, for spec with such atrocious aoe and cleave, DH should be top 3 ST spec easily, and thats already skewed by the fact, that noone actually asks for DHs to swap and aoe, so they get better uptime on boss than pretty much everyone else. the fight needs to cater literally into the havocs CDs, like maiden, which is the only good fight this entire tier, because even on predominantly ST fights like goroth, sisters and avatar, DH is trash

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthium View Post
    It doesn't matter we got buffed when everyone else got buffed aswell. Some even top performing specs like Sub - they got 1,5% buff too. The buff didn't happen because they think the classes themselves needed buffs (the 9% WW buff shows they have absolutely no clue what they are doing, as WW monk played right can absolutely obliterate everything in sight, ending the boss fights from 1st to 3rd place on dps, no matter the scenario), but because our crucible scaling apparently wasn't as high as for example mages.

    Source for WW: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...ncrest/padmonk
    This is a guy from my server whose stream I follow. Absolutely insane player and you can even watch his VoD's to see for yourself
    1. I've no clue about WW Monks, never raided with one. Your monk seems to have pretty good logs, several 100 but his (for example) Heroic goroth log is a 100% and mine is 95 with pretty similar dps.
    But according to the mythic logs. WW Monks are as bad as we are: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13/#

    2. The 3% are not only because of crucible:
    Developers’ notes: All of the damage increases below are a combination of buffing specs that don't benefit from the Netherlight Crucible's item level increase as much as other specs, as well as tuning the specs relative to each other.

  13. #53
    Brewmaster scarecrowz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,418
    The problem with this class is that there is no 3rd spec.

    How can you release your shiny new Hero class with 2 specs and then have both specs under-perform for pretty much the whole expansion?

    I would be fine if Havoc sucked if I had a 2nd DPS spec to go to that was better but I don't. This is also the worst expansion for alts.


    Oh I also believe Blizzard has no fucking idea what to do with us either.

  14. #54
    Mechagnome Nihal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Somewhere Far Far Away
    Posts
    509
    Im sorry but having more specs =/= one of them perfoming well.

    If memory serves me well , all 3 hunter specs were pretty trash on some tiers, so were both unholy and frost DKs.

    So the problem with the class is how raids were designed so far. Just Look at En and NH, Havoc did pretty decent, but now on tos, yeah, kinda sad, but nowhere near of "amg sky is falling, the top guild were taking my class/spec, so must be utterly trash"

  15. #55
    t21 doesn't force demonic, it forces Eye Beam on ST just like it was in EN. I know i'll be playing demonic because i can't stand the brain dead chaos strike spam and its too late to reroll.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ssviolett View Post
    I always laughed on such posts, like boomkin makes 2x more DPS than you, but why do you care? You play in casual guild!!!!1111oneone

    Man, even most casual of casualest guilds want top DPS in their raid. Ofc you can be super skilled and outDPS everyone in your raid, but why you must push buttons like mad when that boomkin facerolling on keyboard watching porn in the same time and having same DPS as yours? Is it fair? Now imagine two casual guys with equal skill - boomking and DH - there will be same 2x times difference. Why Raid Leader would pick that DH? Is it fair?

    - - - Updated - - -


    Leave those "I PUSH STARFAL AND GIT 100500 DPZ!" guys, it is pointless to talk to them. It is easy to argue when your class is easily outdpsing everyone.
    I wouldnt push the 1 button narrative if i were to be you.

    Besides, i agree with the poor perfs of DHs here so much i feel stupid to have invested so much time on my havoc just to keep it on par my main; yet ppl here needs to learn how to cherry pick wcl better.

    At least dont link "all bosses" because it EN Fire Mage all over again :X

  17. #57
    T21 will probably change the way we play. But we won't be bottom dps spec. Not unless you suck anyway.
    Money talks, bullshit walks..

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    We don't scale as well with our crucible, and the other specs which were already performing better are either getting buffed as well or more. The effect this has on the average performing spec is that we're actually moving away from it.



    No, we don't have to wait, they're not going to make any major changes at this point. That's what this "adjustment" means. If they thought they needed to make bigger tuning changes or anything significant, they would be. Havoc will be by far the worst spec in Antorus. It's a dead spec for the remainder of this expansion.
    You clearly have no clue of how balancing goes. They've re-balanced everything one week before the Mythic unlock in the new raids (7.1.5 and 7.2.5 say hello!) only to make slight tunings just ahead of the Mythic release based on the first weeks parses. Quit being such a drama queen and at least do your research before you speak!

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    You clearly have no clue of how balancing goes. They've re-balanced everything one week before the Mythic unlock in the new raids (7.1.5 and 7.2.5 say hello!) only to make slight tunings just ahead of the Mythic release based on the first weeks parses. Quit being such a drama queen and at least do your research before you speak!
    Congratulations on disagreeing with the entire history of patch notes. I'm sure you're right and Blizzard's historical behavior isn't.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    t21 doesn't force demonic, it forces Eye Beam on ST just like it was in EN. I know i'll be playing demonic because i can't stand the brain dead chaos strike spam and its too late to reroll.
    It does, same as T20 forced First Blood.

    The gains on ST damage from Eye Beam without Demonic and using T21 are like nothing compared to using Demonic.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •