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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    such an obvious bait
    why not bite
    right?
    I am hungry...


    Madness will consume you!!!

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosua View Post
    Ret has:

    1. Plate armor (best of all classes)
    2. Instant heal for FULL health
    3. Short cast heals
    4. A ranged attack
    5. Melee attacks with decent dmg
    6. AoE ability
    7. A movement enhancement ability
    8. An Anti movement ability for others (A slow)
    9. A stun
    10. A disorient
    11. Ability to get health back on attack
    12. Can instantly stop ALL dmg

    They've got a massive toolkit, I love when people cry they don't do enough <fill in the blank here>...
    1. Non-plate specs often have supplementary passive defensives.
    2. 10 minute cooldown, can't bubble for 20 seconds after.
    3. flash of light is not much.
    4. A single ranged attack, oh boy. We used to have 2. Used to.
    5. OK? We used to have a DOT, too. Used to.
    6. Every spec has aoe, don't list things everyone else has.
    7. Divine Steed is a 45 second cooldown.
    8. A 30 second cooldown 8 second duration slow. Sounds underwhelming, right? It is.
    9. The stun is something we've had forever, nothing new. It's a solid cc, but it's not an all-powerful ability.
    10. Only if you talent into it.
    11. Not if you want a 4 minute Divine Shield, or 2 charges on Divine Steed...
    12. For 8 seconds out of 4 (5) minutes. Great.

    Massive toolkit? I'm guessing you weren't here for MoP. :|

  3. #343
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    I wish they'd just roll back to WoD Ret...it was fucking awesome.

    I guess can always hope they will do some changes like they are for Demo.

  4. #344
    I wish we get our Hammer of wrath back.

    And.... MOBILITY!
    Almost every single range class (except maybe sp, or lock (tho they just tank my dmg)) LAUGH at my ass when they meet me in battleground or even arena.
    If I ever encounter them in 1v1 = I'm done.
    Mage, shaman, hunter, lock... they all EAT us in mobility. I can't even reach mage to kill. In battleground I just go afk till he kills me. In arena I los 99% praying he'll get close so I can damage him.

    Our mobility is far worse than anything we ever had.

    Dmg is OP when wings are up and crappY without them.
    Only if we go for DP (which I always do in pvp) and pray Gods of RNG to get few procs of it while spamming Justicar's Vengeance on stunned target.
    Not to mention our 300k shield absorb (with 2 mins cd) and 8secs immunity with 4-5 mins cd.
    Melee counter (if talented) = 90 sec cd.

    Atm- pathetic.

    In pve we're "fine" (not op, not bottom) JUST with right gear/trinks/relics.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    In pve we're "fine" (not op, not bottom) JUST with right gear/trinks/relics.
    We're definitely at the bottom of overall Tomb Class DPS, actually, but a few others are basically right there with us usually. We do not have an alternative DPS spec to switch to, unfortunately.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    1. Non-plate specs often have supplementary passive defensives.
    2. 10 minute cooldown, can't bubble for 20 seconds after.
    3. flash of light is not much.
    4. A single ranged attack, oh boy. We used to have 2. Used to.
    5. OK? We used to have a DOT, too. Used to.
    6. Every spec has aoe, don't list things everyone else has.
    7. Divine Steed is a 45 second cooldown.
    8. A 30 second cooldown 8 second duration slow. Sounds underwhelming, right? It is.
    9. The stun is something we've had forever, nothing new. It's a solid cc, but it's not an all-powerful ability.
    10. Only if you talent into it.
    11. Not if you want a 4 minute Divine Shield, or 2 charges on Divine Steed...
    12. For 8 seconds out of 4 (5) minutes. Great.

    Massive toolkit? I'm guessing you weren't here for MoP. :|
    In answer to your number 6, The idea of a list, is to list what something has you tard! And to say 12 options is not enough, you obviously can't use most of them proper, because there are still more options than the 12 I originally listed, those were the high points. And FYI, we aren't in MoP anymore, so pull your head out of your ass and buy Legion....

    Please refrain from insulting other forum users.
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2017-11-21 at 05:02 PM.

  7. #347
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosua View Post
    Ret has:

    1. Plate armor (best of all classes)
    2. Instant heal for FULL health
    3. Short cast heals
    4. A ranged attack
    5. Melee attacks with decent dmg
    6. AoE ability
    7. A movement enhancement ability
    8. An Anti movement ability for others (A slow)
    9. A stun
    10. A disorient
    11. Ability to get health back on attack
    12. Can instantly stop ALL dmg

    They've got a massive toolkit, I love when people cry they don't do enough <fill in the blank here>...
    Man i really don't understand why ret is not reflected in rated pvp and even tournaments. They so strong.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosua View Post
    In answer to your number 6, The idea of a list, is to list what something has you tard! And to say 12 options is not enough, you obviously can't use most of them proper, because there are still more options than the 12 I originally listed, those were the high points. And FYI, we aren't in MoP anymore, so pull your head out of your ass and buy Legion....
    When you list something that we have but on the other hand other specs have it as well (mostly in a better itteration...) then you beat the purpose of listing things that make us shine compare to others.

    Why would you want to take a Ret based on its Armor whrn Armor means nothing other than fantasy?
    Why would you want to take Ret based on an instant heal, when that heals is a 10 minute CD?
    Why would you want to take a Ret based on short cast heals when many other specs bring either that same utility only better, or raid/group CDs that help with health issues...? Leaving alone the fact that our heals are never needed.
    Why would you take a Ret based on melee attacks, when every other melee hits harder?
    Why would you take a Ret based on AoE when many other classes do it better?
    Why would you take a Ret based on mobility when all (bar one) classes have better mobility?
    Why would you take a Ret based on a slow, when it pales in comparison to other slowing, rooting, fear, stun and more CC effects that other specs have?
    Why would you take a Ret based on a stun when every class has at least one?
    Why would you take a Ret based on a Disorient, when its so shit and cant compare to options other specs have?
    Why would you want to take Ret based on a self heal when most classes have some sort of a self heal or self preservation?
    Why would you want to take a Ret based on our bubble when there are rouges in this game? And Demon hunters... And hunters. And mages. And Druids. And... You see?
    You make no sense.


    Madness will consume you!!!

  9. #349
    What will ret be like in Antorus? Same as ToS in terms of bottom of the pack dps?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    Anyway stop being such an ass fucktard.
    Quote Originally Posted by oblivium666 View Post
    Would you kindly go fuck yourself?

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinexve View Post
    What will ret be like in Antorus? Same as ToS in terms of bottom of the pack dps?
    I'm assuming there's more legitimate AOE stuff in Antorus than Tomb, so we'll probably not be at the bottom. Probably.

  11. #351
    I'd really like to see holy power go away, in general Ret feels like an amalgamation of different existing class mechanics.

    Holy Power -> Rogue Combo Points
    Judgement -> Warrior Colossus Smash/Hunter Vulnerability

    These two elements create a really static rotation, build points, debuff target, spend points, repeat.

    When I truly enjoyed ret it was pretty chaotic and random, mostly due to Divine Purpose I guess. But you were really active with a good mix of range and melee skills, mix of physical and magic damage and the spec was a "light up game" where you reacted to what came off Cd or what skill light up from a proc. I personally loved that kind of Ret playstyle.

    I just think Ret needs more variation or a dynamic element to its rotation but there isn't many classes mechanics I can think of from other games that are not already covered by other classes, we have combo points, energy resources, mana resources, build and spend resources, change form resources and a few combinations of each.

    I'd still gladly take a resource where you build up holy power(0-100) and can toggle it on or off to enter a rapidly power draining "form" or "stance", unlike Spriests where you fight to stay in it, you just toggle it on or off at will to avoid waste. It doesn't even need to change your appearance (although super saiyan comes to mind) but could make you gain a burning damage aura and your single target abilities deal X burning over time. I dunno, quick thoughts.

    There is also potential to borrow more concepts from D3 Crusader like:
    1. Falling Sword as an additional mobility/aoe tool - Jump into the air, creating a movable zone on the ground that you crash down on after a delay dealing aoe dmg/stun (warrior has charge + leap, let pala have horsey + falling sword)

    Or

    2. Heaven's Fury (similar to Artanis in HotS) where you call down a pillar of light on a target dealing damage over its duration, which follows the target as it moves (Gives Ret some ST damage over time)

  12. #352
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    I'm feeling a bit confused.

    "2-piece bonus now increases the damage of Judgment by 40% (was 60%)."

    It's already a tier set that is a lot more slower and boring than the previous tier (which made our spec a lot smoother), why tossing out nerfs on the set bonus? ;_:

  13. #353
    I liked Judgment back when it interacted with our Seals and did different things depending on which Seal you had. They don't have to put that system back in, but a general idea like that is actually cool.

    To me, being a Ret means being infused with holy power, and do want to get that Super Saiyan feel like the previous page post mentioned. Being suffused with Holy Light temporarily sounds awesome as fuck.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    I'm feeling a bit confused.

    "2-piece bonus now increases the damage of Judgment by 40% (was 60%)."

    It's already a tier set that is a lot more slower and boring than the previous tier (which made our spec a lot smoother), why tossing out nerfs on the set bonus? ;_:
    We were inching closer to the middle of the pack in Antorus DPS projections. Can't have that.

  15. #355
    Dammit just scrap Judgement as part of the Mastery, one.

    Allow Judgement to grant just ONE measly HP if you intend to keep the damn HP Mechanic, two.

    Immediately simple change to improve the fluidity, defined as how cohesive the kit is and how NOT clumsy in it's priority/rotation is isn't, of the spec.

    Return 2-3 of ye olde seals, dgaf which ones, and allow Judgment to proc a bonus effect on a target based on the active seal. Allow seals to be toggled, minor buffs that become what is now a Blessing when Judged. One of the seals when Judged can proc immediate bonus damage or even a fecking stacking debuff that deals major damage when stacked to X. One of the other seals Judges in AoE and allows next X seconds of damage or next X number of abilities to proc in AoE at Y % value; with minor particle effects so we don't hear an excuse about how "visually busy" or some shit the spec is with extra stuff.

    The Seals are Ret-only, sealing shit sounds like something someone seeking Retribution might do. Judgment SHOULD be the cornerstone of the spec. It's a damn holy knight running around condemning evildoers. Let Judgment BE a cornerstone because there's a compelling mechanic, not this turning Ret into a slightly ranged Holy Arms Warrior, albeit one WITHOUT a large AoE application!

    Let the Mastery affect Judgment damage and the power of their seals when Judged, NOT passively. Bam, an easy lever for balance AND a decent way for good players to feel good about performance because a player who optimizes Judgment use will be rewarded with performance not seen by an AFK 123 Ret. The other specs don't need Seals, this is Ret-only. Maybe the cornerstone of Ret could be having BOTH Seals Judged as close to 100% uptime as possible in order for a bonus effect, like increased Haste OR ACCESS TO HAMMER OF WRATH, this could use a system of charges, could be a one time use of HoW or could be that HoW uses just ONE HP to cast, so the spec is about cycling phases where you can maintain both seals Judged and spend HP on HoW and a phase where you can't and therefore spend HP on your existing finishers, i dunno.

    Almost anything is more fun than what we have now. In fact...as i write this i wonder why i feel deja vu...hmmm....what could it be...
    Last edited by Goobaman; 2017-11-24 at 10:49 PM.

  16. #356
    Ret's before 7.2: Amazing.

    Ret's after 7.2: Lower than the Lowest Low in terms of DPS.

    FeelsBadMan :Wheelchair: RET MAIN COMING THROUGH! :Wheelchair:

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgusTheUnmaker View Post
    Ret's before 7.2: Amazing.

    Ret's after 7.2: Lower than the Lowest Low in terms of DPS.

    FeelsBadMan :Wheelchair: RET MAIN COMING THROUGH! :Wheelchair:
    Yeah, at least Demon Hunters have cool stuff they can do to make up for the DPS, kinda, although they still deserve a bit higher numbers as well. DPS wasn't a big issue before Legion for Ret because we had utility. Now, hit the red target is all we can really do.

  18. #358
    Oh, that is a totally viable concept, in my eyes.

    If a spec has an additional perk besides his main job, let's nerf his ability to perform what he is fething supposed to do, meaning his prowess as a damage dealer.
    Now just got to find out why said logic was only ever applied to Ret only, and we're golden.
    Last edited by Morally Grey Storm; 2017-11-25 at 08:35 AM. Reason: Cape Point_-_First State

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Oh, that is a totally viable concept, in my eyes.

    If a spec has an additional perk besides his main job, let's nerf his ability to perform what he is fething supposed to do, meaning his prowess as a damage dealer.
    Now just got to find out why said logic was only ever applied to Ret only, and we're golden.
    It didn't. We actually probably had the most versatility and utility of any DPS spec. Ret off-healing used to be good, and it wasn't that much of a trade-off. Kind-of like a reverse disc priest, doing more DPS than healing.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    It didn't. We actually probably had the most versatility and utility of any DPS spec. Ret off-healing used to be good, and it wasn't that much of a trade-off. Kind-of like a reverse disc priest, doing more DPS than healing.

    Of course it did not. We actually surely never had had dps rankings that were higher than middle of the middle of the pack of the middle, but yeah. Of course it did not.
    Having a few tools to help your raid can justify your own dps being wanting?
    Having a few support tools can justify your lack of any and all offensive potential or tools?
    Did ever, ever HoF justify us not having a proper gapcloser or a snare?
    Why this very logic won't apply?

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