PvP should be big and epic.

[Girrag]

You can see big and epic PVP in EvE Online for example. For regular member it looks like "orbit/follow anchor and shoot/heal broadcasted targets". There's no skill involved, except from few people. And it's all about movement and positioning. You basically want to be on your optimal range, your enemy in bubbles so they can't run away or rewarp on their optimal range, and your healers outside of enemy's optimal range. In most cases if enemy blob targeted you - you'll die, logistics can't outheal alpha strike. So in WoW it will be big blob of hunters and druids against other blob of hunters and druids. Those classes will be best because they have a lot of instacasts and big enough alpha strike. And it will be about pure numbers - there's no difference in range between different ranged classes. No fun at all. Or they have to rework entire game from scratch.
40 vs. 40 is pretty small for "army vs. army" scale.

[Deleted]

I must have been one of the few people to even enjoy ashran, i spent a lot of time there. It s a shame really that balancing doesn't support world pvp anymore. I really hope they find a way to fix it next expansion.

[docterfreeze]

Large scale battles were cool when AoE was scarce and had a high resource cost. Now a lot of abilities passively AoE with negligible resource cost. Melee are hopeless in these situations. In the tarren mill vs southshore brawl, the only thing I could do as a windwalker was spectate the ranged vs ranged fight from 300 yards away and 1v1 any stragglers.

I'm sure it's still somewhat fun for casters. You finally have a place where you can freecast most of the time.

[Kralljin]

yeah old AV before reinforcements (and when npcs did damage, Unsure how it is in legion since it is AV) is the pinnacle of fun pvp for me.

Npc's are a semi threat.

Lone players are in for a real surprise if they try to oneshot those Graveyard guards, they pack a real punch since Legion and can easily take down a non tank if he's unprepared.

It's rather fun to play around that, very often i kited people into those because they do not suspect the danger and then got torn apart by those.

[ItachiZaku]

I'm sure I've done more of it than you.

Being skilled in large scale is an oxymoron.

My main druid has more HKs than your main, less than all 3 combined (not saying that's a measuring stick, just means that we clearly both PVP a lot). I prefer the larger scale, feels more fluid, but I do believe there is a place for both and you should be skilled with both. You can't approach each with the same mindset and succeed.

[Caolela]

I have to agree both with Magus - "... the arena is a joke, and that it teaches one bad habits.", and with Louz - "Large scale PvP" as in 40v40 is crap."

40v40 really...50-80 people clusterfucking in an enormous, unreadable mash of ability effects and nameplates is not "epic!1!". It's no-skill epic stupidity and a rage-inducing lagfest.

The other extreme of 3v3 arena - low-skill 1, 2, 3 targeting macro/kickbot, tunnel vision, no map objective, dampened, pillar-humping, first-kill-wins-dethmatchbawk is no better.

There's a "happy medium" somewhere between those two and it's probably 10-15 man with map objectives. That's enough room to allow for spec/comp diversity, counterplay, and strategy beyond simple rock/paper/scissors head-banging but not so broad as to be a generic, uncontrolled spamfest.

[ilik2345]

I would not say 3's or 2's lacks skill, its hugely comp dependent sure, but there is definitely a difference between a team at 2.8k rating and a team at 1.8k i'd suggest most of that difference is the skill in how they play. How big that gap is certainly debatable, but it is there.

My issue with 40vs40 games is its just too random, i can sit and do nothing and we can win, i can hold and capture key area's while winning every fight and still lose. For me it feels like any contribution i can do, or even a group of five can do is outweighed by the other 35 people. Its super hard to organise, far far worse then 40 person raids because at least in a raid people will listen to direction, where as in a 40v40 bg everyone goes off and does there own thing or follows the person in front like a sheep.

10-15 person bgs i enjoy the most, because even outside rated bgs, a group of five people can make a huge difference.

[Krusza]

My main druid has more HKs than your main, less than all 3 combined (not saying that's a measuring stick, just means that we clearly both PVP a lot). I prefer the larger scale, feels more fluid, but I do believe there is a place for both and you should be skilled with both. You can't approach each with the same mindset and succeed.

Im still surprised people actually think HKs mean anything. This char has only existed since mid-mop.

I mean, if all you do is large scale then it's understandable why you may be oblivious to how dull it is.

[ItachiZaku]

Im still surprised people actually think HKs mean anything. This char has only existed since mid-mop.

I mean, if all you do is large scale then it's understandable why you may be oblivious to how dull it is.

Obviously they can be cheesed, but it is a mark of experience on a toon or account. If someone brags about a main they've had since vanilla and talks a lot of PVP shit, turns out that main only has 190 HKs...

I've done some arena on various toons, the obvious world PVP here and there solo and in groups or raids. Winning an AV with 8 resources while being only 1 of 3 horde healers with top heals or holding lumbermill from opening push with constant 5-8 man assaults with only 2-3... i'll take that AV any day of the week.

[Deleted]

I loved big scale pvp during vanilla, especially the hour long AV's, when you would battle for objectives and reinforcements, now it's just a zerg shitshow. However, CTF maps have always been the worst kind imo, especially when trying to balance classes with too much or too little mobility.

[Deleted]

Ashran was supposed to be that epic battle, but people don´t like it.

[Dmitro]

Just make classes hard and interesting to play again and shut up with stupid moba/rbg/eva style changes.

[AeneasBK]

Ashran was supposed to be that epic battle, but people don´t like it.

The only thing I feel they did wrong with Ashran was leave half the island for future development that never came. If they had spread out the same map over the whole island and made everything twice as far away it would have been able to fragment into several smaller battles over the objectives as opposed to one big messy tug of war.

I still loved it but I played paladin and bubble was OP for that style of clash.

[Deleted]

there is like 250 people in the world who have mastered 3v3 (in 2017). that's 250 out of like 6.000.000 people playing the game. the problem with WoW PvP isn't that it's not epic or not big enough...the problem is that it's too hard for even advanced gamers. League or CS have an absurd amount of good players. that's because getting better in those games is feasible. in WoW it seems so far away that people don't even try anymore to get better and label WoW PvP as 'garbage'.

[Ava in Azeroth]

Large scale battles are awesome. The days of Wintergrasp, I do miss them. The only thing I cannot stand is lag, like Brawl: Southshore vs. Tarren Mill. Most of the matches lag.

[Astator]

40v40 is quite pointless and boring. Southshore vs Tarren mill is the worse. Wintergrasp was only fun for the first few days when it came out.

[Lex Icon]

40v40 is quite pointless and boring. Southshore vs Tarren mill is the worse. Wintergrasp was only fun for the first few days when it came out.

meh i loved wintergrasp.. but maybe that was because we had guilds on both sides dedicated to it so the fights where rarely one sided.

[Moonsado]

Hmm, I dislike wintergrasp and sota anything that has vehicles I sort of dislike that element in PvP.

[psir]

For PvP to attract more people it would have to evolve into something new.They talked about implementing a DOTA based battleground, but they scrapped the idea because they didn't have the technology to make it work. I am hopefull they will surprise us with something new in 8.0.