Where exactly the ''Alleria use the power of the shadows'' bit is coming from ?

[Mic_128]

It's space. TN is an alternate dimension, I'm pretty sure. It's labeled TN because the roles used to be reversed. The new Illidan book says it's explicitly in the GDB and Chronicle's distinction of the GDB describes it as the physical universe and "outer space" whereas the TN is an astral plane--which, despite astral meaning stars, in this context means mystical magical mumbo jumbo land.

Yup. But with the whole "Oops, I've opened up hundreds of thousands of portals all over the planet." and having it be literally torn apart by so many unstable rifts, it wouldn't be surprising at all to have had it be pulled into the twisting nether. The very fact that we can see Azeroth in the skies of Outland would suggest to me that it's more likely to be int he Twisting Nether than the Great Dark Beyond (space) even if it's just at the edge of the two meeting (Which according to chronicles is a thing)

We're told Alleria was learning to use it from Locus-Walker who seems eager to break her up with Turalyon because it appears he wants her to learn this path alone, which may be required to master it.

I dunno, I saw it more along the lines of "I don't want you changing your mind because your husband's going to keep complaining about it"

[deviantcultist]

Trying to do 'A Song of Void and Light' crap.

Oh please. People were talking about the balance of Light and Void for years now. Just because the lore was focused on mundane things like Orcs or loud demons, it does not mean it was not there all along.

[Magistrate]

Yup. But with the whole "Oops, I've opened up hundreds of thousands of portals all over the planet." and having it be literally torn apart by so many unstable rifts, it wouldn't be surprising at all to have had it be pulled into the twisting nether.

I guess you're right that it could be partially between the two, but it seems like current cannon is wording away from that idea with the explicit Illidan book quote. Netherstorm would still make sense in that sense, though, given that it's highly inundated with energy. I think the counter point could also be made that the Broken Shore probably has more portals to other areas in the Great Dark and the Twisting Nether than all of Outland combined, but it doesn't appear to behave by the same rule.

The very fact that we can see Azeroth in the skies of Outland would suggest to me that it's more likely to be int he Twisting Nether than the Great Dark Beyond (space) even if it's just at the edge of the two meeting (Which according to chronicles is a thing)

I'm not going to outright disagree as there are a lot of people that hold to this, but some thoughts:

1. Isn't Azeroth only visible in the Black Temple skybox?
2. If Outland is in the Twisting Nether, certain key demons slayed there during TBC should be dead, but they appear later. Socrethar comes to mind.
3. On alternate pervading argument I seem to read a lot is that people are saying Azeroth is only viewable from the Black Temple because Illidan is scrying on the planet as he tragically ponders his decisions. Kosak seems to support this idea after hearting a Twitter response from 2015 that says this very thing. (But he doesn't say it himself, and earlier in the replies says that the Twisting Nether is the space between worlds, not the GBB, so either he's confused or the retcon about the two wasn't established yet then.)

I guess it's just really convoluted if anything. I think the bigger issue was that for TBC--which had hardly any actual storytelling in it--was largely just a big clump of "cool ideas" compounded by people with little actual storytelling or writing experience, and that now as they try to streamline the lore and rules of this large, complicated universe, there will always be loopholes and oversights because of the nature of how older content was developed.

[Mic_128]

I think the counter point could also be made that the Broken Shore probably has more portals to other areas in the Great Dark and the Twisting Nether than all of Outland combined, but it doesn't appear to behave by the same rule.

Currently, yes. But things to keep in mind include that Illidan had gone around, closing as many as he could to eliminate reincorcements for Magtheradon, and then later to prevent Kil'jaeden from tracking him down.

Before that though, there were still portals appearing everywhere, all over the planet. No matter how many Broken shore has, they don't have anywhere near the thousands that were torn open.

2. If Outland is in the Twisting Nether, certain key demons slayed there during TBC should be dead, but they appear later. Socrethar comes to mind.

My guess is that they didn't die because of it being on the 'edge' of the nether, if that makes sense. Although it's more likely to be what you said - "largely just a big clump of "cool ideas" compounded by people with little actual storytelling or writing experience, and that now as they try to streamline the lore and rules of this large, complicated universe, there will always be loopholes and oversights."

[Dastreus]

I guess you're right that it could be partially between the two, but it seems like current cannon is wording away from that idea with the explicit Illidan book quote. Netherstorm would still make sense in that sense, though, given that it's highly inundated with energy. I think the counter point could also be made that the Broken Shore probably has more portals to other areas in the Great Dark and the Twisting Nether than all of Outland combined, but it doesn't appear to behave by the same rule.



I'm not going to outright disagree as there are a lot of people that hold to this, but some thoughts:

1. Isn't Azeroth only visible in the Black Temple skybox?
2. If Outland is in the Twisting Nether, certain key demons slayed there during TBC should be dead, but they appear later. Socrethar comes to mind.
3. On alternate pervading argument I seem to read a lot is that people are saying Azeroth is only viewable from the Black Temple because Illidan is scrying on the planet as he tragically ponders his decisions. Kosak seems to support this idea after hearting a Twitter response from 2015 that says this very thing. (But he doesn't say it himself, and earlier in the replies says that the Twisting Nether is the space between worlds, not the GBB, so either he's confused or the retcon about the two wasn't established yet then.)

I guess it's just really convoluted if anything. I think the bigger issue was that for TBC--which had hardly any actual storytelling in it--was largely just a big clump of "cool ideas" compounded by people with little actual storytelling or writing experience, and that now as they try to streamline the lore and rules of this large, complicated universe, there will always be loopholes and oversights because of the nature of how older content was developed.

1: Correct.
2: This is why I quoted. The reason Socrethar and Magtheridon are there, is because WoD was a seperate universe. Note, Socrethar in there was a regular Draenei/Eredar that -became- Socrethar in quests. Frankly, I am at the point with WoD, where the only cannon thing I even consider true, was a Gul'Dan coming to our realm. Fuck literally everything else about WoD's story.
3: See above.

Finally, Outland is in the Nether. TN was never "space", space was always "The Great Dark". The only possible explanations that I can accept for Turalyon and Alleria's claim of 1k years, is some time hopping bullshit, temporal displacement, or they were lied do. When the hunters go and retrieve their Marksman weapon, I read what the mage said as meaning time feels off. Like the place has so little in way of telling when and where you are, that it's easy to loose yourself. Or, that -specific- region of the Nether has time distortions.

[Musta]

Currently, yes. But things to keep in mind include that Illidan had gone around, closing as many as he could to eliminate reincorcements for Magtheradon, and then later to prevent Kil'jaeden from tracking him down.

Before that though, there were still portals appearing everywhere, all over the planet. No matter how many Broken shore has, they don't have anywhere near the thousands that were torn open.



My guess is that they didn't die because of it being on the 'edge' of the nether, if that makes sense. Although it's more likely to be what you said - "largely just a big clump of "cool ideas" compounded by people with little actual storytelling or writing experience, and that now as they try to streamline the lore and rules of this large, complicated universe, there will always be loopholes and oversights."

Magtheridon didnt come back.

[Volardelis]

Magtheridon didnt come back.

But Kazzak did

Unless blizzard retconed his death in TBC to explain his appearance in WoD. Much like how his vanilla encounter is no longer 'canon' due to the TBC pre launch event.