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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    In attempting to counter the argument about how people talked about Demon Hunters, you went and made exactly the same core arguments.

    If Blizzard wanted to create a seperate Ranger class, it's just a matter of giving them a kit and resources that are different from Hunters. Unique animations for their abilities would also go a long way towards differentiating them. This of course would also probably involve a slight rework of the Marksmanship spec, similar to the Demonology rework (IE "we feel that Marksmanship has strayed to far from the hunter fantasy of being a class that uses pets).


    Some sources of inspiration for Ranger / Dark Ranger / Void Ranger / Shadow Hunter / etc. kits in Heroes of the Storm, for example, would be: Alarak, Cassia, Greymane, Malthael, Nazeebo, Sylvanas, Tyrande, Valla, Xul, and Zeratul.

    When you start mixing and matching abilities from those characters, you get something that looks very different from a Hunter in WoW.
    I think you skipped right past the part of my comment where I talk about the "fantasy" a spec needs to fulfill. The situation with Demon hunters was different because it was a demon powered melee class vs a demon powered spell casting class. There was room there to fulfill another fantasy with two specs, huge brute demon monster and skilled warglaive wielding fel ninja. They even said they struggled making more specs and kept it to two because they couldn't think of a good third.

    Of the possible powers that exist to differentiate the Dark Ranger (shadow, void, dark), there is only one fantasy fulfilled: A bow wielding stalker that uses dark magic. Unless you can come up with a meaningful difference between the specs outside of the shade of their purple, you are going to struggle making a successful spec.

    You can force in a healing or tanking spec but how many people think: "Yeah dark bow wielding healer! That's the spec that fulfills my fantasy!"
    "I pulled up to moonglade about 7 or 8
    and yelled to the trainer "yo resto cya."
    Looked at my talent tree, i was finally there.
    To go to Karazhan and tank in dire bear."
    -Yarma

  2. #62
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Fel magic predates demons and the Legion, so it's not like new fel magic can't continue to be invented. If anything, you'd expect to see more of it now that the Legion is out of commission and all demonic entities kinda have the choice of either becoming neutral/friendly or being killed. Without the Legion, I'd imagine Fel would be a great deal less taboo, though not any less destructive or chaotic. So you might also see things like the Kirin Tor allowing more study of it.

    Alleria's tattoos are not demon hunter tattoos, she just has her own blue tattoos on one arm that are still seen in the void form.

    But more importantly Dark Ranger just does not match Demon Hunter's idea at all. Demon Hunters are a very specific type of agile melee fighter with little armor built around using fel magic. Would be pretty strange to add a decently armored, void-magic archer spec to DH rather than Hunter, or if nothing else, priest.
    Don't get me wrong, you're probably right. But I think if a 3rd demon hunter spec is introduced which it probably will at some point it's going to have to be lore heavy involving some kind of quest.

    The reason I think this is because leveling through legion you only get the artifact weapons, playing another spec from lvl 98 would involve adding another artifact weapon. It would be much simpler if a third spec had to be unlocked at a higher level. If it's going to be unlocked then I'm sure there would be some story behind it. And if there's a story behind it Blizzard can basically make up whatever story they want, assuming a void based expansion it's not an enormous leap for some demon hunters to start experimenting with different forms of magic and power. Also, other classes like warlocks, shamans, mages, even hunters draw on multiple magic types.

    Also, your description of a demon hunter is basically describing havoc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Blizzard seemed to have put all the iconic demon hunter stuff in the havoc spec, like using warglaives and spells like fel rush, vengeance feels like it was plucked out of thin air just because a class having 1 spec would be silly. I don't even recall ever seeing the form of warglaive they use before. If a warlock can change from one minute burning enemies in felfire to the next assaulting them with shadow curses I don't see why a demon hunter couldn't theoretically at some point start experimenting when the main threat they "sacrificed everything" for is vanquished. After all from chronicles we know shadow magic is ultimately void based.

    Now sure a spec introduced like this isn't going to be the exact "Dark Ranger" from lore. But it could be something pretty close. Changing a hunter spec to dark ranger would involve just as much retconning and invented stories either way.

    EDIT: With respect to armour type. I also don't really see why a dark ranger would be "decently armoured" since their whole class fantasy is about stalking and shadows. The idea they would wear mail is because people think of them as hunters, if true it wouldn't make a lot of sense to add the class at all.
    Last edited by mmocca694fa5de; 2017-09-13 at 03:36 PM.

  3. #63
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    Engineering is not a playable class. You're comparing apples to country fried steak here, it's like comparing fucking around with a radio shack electronic toy kit that lets you make everything from working LED lights to a lo-fi radio with a single circuit board to like being an astronaut or something.

    Engineers using mechs are a well established thing in wow. Plenty of room for expansion of a class that could use technology in comparison to a profession that is mainly "just for fun". You think it's the same just cuz technology? Really that's your entire argument? Well I just picked some dry skin from between my toes and discarded it and I think you're essentially the same thing as your opinion is equally worthless. And you're from Denmark? Don't they actually pay people in your country to go to school and this is what your thoughts are on this not difficult to understand matter?
    I see you've missed my point and have begun giving me sass, but that's okay if a bit surprising.

    I'm not saying that engineering and tinkers are the same, I'm saying you're simplifying Dark Rangers too much.

    They're not just Hunters with void abilities, or at least they don't have to be.

    Both can be a seperate class, as both have enough substance behind them.

  4. #64
    Immortal Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Yeah OP you are quite right, it is a bit of a dumb thought xD

    But seriously, this is not really a transisition to a dark ranger class, maybe a spec at some point, but not a class. First of all: Sylvanas and Alleria are both different kind of "dark" right now, so what kind of ranger would they make from them? A void ranger or an undead ranger? So that does not match up at all. Secoundly: Sure we need more ranged classes, but then i has to be something different from Hunters and they are already quite rangerish, so there would be a clear class overlap there.

    Blizzard are just playing with the idea, that the Windrunners are not afraid of toying with taboo powers and using it for their own purpose.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  5. #65
    While I love, love, love the idea, there is no way in hell Blizzard adds a class two expansions in a row.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthas242 View Post

    think about it, it's highly sought after
    I stopped reading there. It's not. It's not at all sought after.
    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bigzoman View Post
    Meant Wetback. That's what the guy from Home Depot called it anyway.
    ==================================
    If you say pls because it is shorter than please,
    I'll say no because it is shorter than yes.
    ==================================

  7. #67
    The Insane Feali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    You decide to just quote a bunch of people for?
    They quoted me saying my argument is stupid. The thing is there's not much animation to shooting arrows. Unless they make Dark Ragner reeeaaallly flashy I don't see how they can be very different from Hunters from a purely asthetic point.

  8. #68
    Deleted
    If they announce this at blizzcon i'd be stoked. For one thing i can give up leveling my Forsaken Hunter who i made to feel this 'fantasy'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feali View Post
    They quoted me saying my argument is stupid. The thing is there's not much animation to shooting arrows. Unless they make Dark Ragner reeeaaallly flashy I don't see how they can be very different from Hunters from a purely asthetic point.
    Well if they add dark energy coming off they gear? I mean asthetic Warrior, Paladins and DK all wear basically the same armour if you strip away all the skulls, colored lights etc. Dark Rangers could wear black mail with shadow energy coming out of it etc while hunter wear usual mail.

  9. #69
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    If anything, this would be more likely to suggest Dark Ranger as a Hunter spec. If you really want to talk about an unfilled niche, let's talk about ranged Holy DPS, or plate healers (only one spec in the game), or a turret-builder spec.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  10. #70
    Deleted
    Shieeeeet. Does I haz to say ma rhymes again?

    Demon Hunters need third spec
    Void one would be it

    rekt.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Feali View Post
    They quoted me saying my argument is stupid. The thing is there's not much animation to shooting arrows. Unless they make Dark Ragner reeeaaallly flashy I don't see how they can be very different from Hunters from a purely asthetic point.
    I never said it was stupid......

  12. #72
    The Insane Feali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    I never said it was stupid......
    Fair point.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Feali View Post
    You can't add a new Mail class that ALSO uses the same weapons as Hunters.
    Sure they can. Hunters are not stuck with spears and pets only. GLHF

  14. #74
    Stood in the Fire Dragon ANX's Avatar
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    I dont think that would be a class, mora like a new spec to hunter?
    As some people already said, i think that is time to Blizzard add a new spec to the current classes.
    I would love a Storm(Thunder and Wind or just Thunder) themed spec for mages.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i would very much love a void ranger, either in the form of a new class or a new spec.

    i'd honestly like to see a light or void infused spec for every class.
    I wouldn't be terribly surprised if in an upcoming expansion, our "paragon/artifact" type progression was a talent tree divided in shadow and light options, with the direction that the story seems to be heading in Argus.

  16. #76
    I think Dark Ranger sounds a lot better than a Tinker class. I do not understand the appeal for a Tinker class, where did it come from?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfRider View Post

    Rogue: "Bard", a heal spec like in the "Rift" game.
    No, just no. Rogues are awesome. Take your Bard and shove it!
    Last edited by Rugaru78; 2017-09-13 at 06:56 PM.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoSul View Post
    Why cant you? its already happened twice for leather both Monks and Demon Hunters( although i guess they have glaives too) use the same weapons as Rogues
    I think what he was going for was that they would need to make sure that the dark ranger differed enough from hunter so as to make them both desirable to play rather than just ending up with a "Void themed hunter"

    Granted; with that said I really don't think it would be difficult in the slightest to do that. But that's the only logical thing I can come up with for what they were shooting for.

    In this same vein though; I think I would honestly prefer the existing classes get new specs over an altogether new class. Or perhaps even a sort of "heroic spec" type of deal that unlock/enhances existing specs at whatever the new max level was- thinking of Arch Mages and Arch Druids here.
    Last edited by AcidicSyn; 2017-09-13 at 06:53 PM.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    I would spend a very long time laughing at the tears. I hope that happens.
    I have a tear just thinking about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    Cool ideas, though I would give the mage either a tank spec or a heal spec. We already have 3 dps spec in this class. And I would make the rogue's 4th spec an evasion tank. Healer would not fit a class which is so strongly connected to killing.
    I love this idea!

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    I did not say everyone wants tinkers I said there is demand for it, enough that Blizz developers have discussed it openly.

    The few people in this forum and outside of it that want dark rangers to be a new class (who knows why) relatively speaking amount to a spec of dust on a hill of beans.
    Tinkers and Dark Ranger demand is about on the same level, and you'll only get the impression that Tinker is higher simply due to vocal demand in enthusiast sites like this. Outside of that, you don't have a high demand for it outside of the odd 'Mekkatorque looks cool I want that!' which can be said about any cool shit in a cinematic.

    Also, people want playable Hozen in MoP and playable Nightborne in Legion, so player demand isn't exactly a consistent metric. People generally don't know what they like until they get it, and Blizzard is well aware of how to make people to want something they never thought they would. Just like adding Mekkatorque in the Legion cinematic to generate hype for potential Tinkers, whether they plan to act on the class or not.

    Hell, Necromancer hype has been ramping up quite a bit over the past year and it wasn't a concept that was on many people's minds considering we already have Death Knights. The player demand doesn't indicate a higher chance of possibility. The possibility for a Necromancer is dependent on the direction Blizzard wants to take the game and story.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2017-09-13 at 06:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfRider View Post
    They could add a 4th spec for every class (a 3rd for DH and revamp the Feral Druid's poor gameplay ) and use some lore characters and the fact that Order Class worked together and learned from each other.

    Death Knight: I love the Unholy, really, but Blizzard should exploit more the range aspect and the combination with the abomination. Rework this spec, and add "Necromancer" spec, a Healer spec with Staff and/or Polearm that use the entire knowledge of the Death Knight (Blood / Frost / Unholy) with different skills to heal and protect using Death Runes. Adding to that a knowledge into the Shadow/Void that allows the Necromancer to auto-rez and battle-rez an ally (Lich's phylactery) or use Banshees and skeletons. Lore character could be KelThuzad.

    Hunter: "Shadow Hunter". That class has 2 range and a melee specs. I don't think adding a 3rd range spec is usefull if Blizzard keeps the 2 others like this. Marksmanship focus on shooting powerful hits, Beastmaster should exploit more the interaction between the hunter and his pet (more than 1 or 2 buttons), Survival is cool. Shadow Hunter should be a Tank spec, Melee with 2 one-hand swords, with some skills to escape.

    Priest: "Inquisitor". A melee Damage Dealer spec that use 2 daggers and light magic, just like that good old Scarlet Crusade boss.

    Warrior: "Commander", a Heal spec using a Shield and one-hand mace. The Commander can use his melee skills to feed his rage and use Battle Cries to empower/protect his allies and buff the heal done on targets and provides buffs to leech life from their enemies.

    Shaman: "Rune Master". Using the Earth Element to protect, this Tank spec use a Shield and one-hand mace.

    Rogue: "Bard", a heal spec like in the "Rift" game.

    Warlock: "Void Guardian", a Tank spec that uses the Warlock knowledge to tap into the Twisting Neither and empower him with the Voidwalkers.

    Demon Hunter: "Warden", a Range Damage Dealer using Warglaives.

    Paladin: "Light Fury", a Range Damage Dealer using the Light to attack his enemies.

    Mage: "Spellblade", a Melee Damage Dealer using Arcane Magic to empower is 2 hands Sword and other schools to control or burst their enemies.

    Monk: "Jade apprentice", a Range Damage Dealer using Polearm that can cast Nature/Spirit spells and summon Jade Serpents

    Druid: Despite Blizzard separated the Feral spec in two (Guardian/Feral), the Melee DD spec lacks of fun gameplay. They should keep the base of that spec in the Feral Form for other specs (with some mechanic changes depending on the spec) and go further for this melee spec. For example "Scythe Wolf", you play an original spec using the power of the Druids of the Scythe, mastering the Full Feral Form and the Emerald Nightmare's power.

    So, this would add 3 Heal / 3 Tanks / 3 Range DD / 3 Melee DD and allow players to switch their roles more often depending on the situations.
    While I love where your head is at; I think a huge problem with this is the threat of homogenization. If we have too many classes that can tank/heal etc we end up with these classes sharing the same abilities; which I think blizzard wanted to get away from.

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