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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    That's more of an education/awareness issue than a co-pay issue. Folks need to realize that you don't need to go to the ER for a minor laceration on your finger, going to your doctor or somewhere like an urgent care facility is far more appropriate as it's both the kind of thing they're there for (non-emergencies) and it's far cheaper for all involved. It's something that many ER's began seeing after the ACA was put in full effect and folks who never had health care all of a sudden did.

    For those of us who have had health care the whole time, it's a no-brainer issue and many of us are pretty familiar with the ins/outs of the health care system (especially if you've had family who have been sick/injured frequently). For folks who aren't familiar with it, there's a lot of education needed to help those folks make the best, most effective (in all senses) use of the health care system both for their own personal benefit and for the benefit of the system as a whole.
    For ER, co-pays are not needed. Doctors can mostly see if the patient is in need of their care. It's the actual doctor visits that need them tbh. Nothing will stop people from going when their head hurts and all they need is over the counter aspirin. Going to the doctor will cost the system for each visit.

    Co-pay doesn't have to be expensive, could be like $20ish. Serves a bit of a deterrent for unnecessary visits. If te person can prove he/she can't even pay the $20, it can be waived or billed later.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    As opposed to the incredibly detailed policy plans of one Donald J. Trump.
    More people getting better coverage for less money.

    TrumpCare proved to be one out of three, tops, and I'm not even sure about the "less money" part with the tax cuts.

  3. #23
    Stood in the Fire Hellboi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mittens View Post
    Via Vox (emphasis on the relevant parts):




    Interesting article, this reminds me of the time republicans made similar vague promises on healthcare, tho this one is slightly more elaborated.

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  4. #24
    The Unstoppable Force smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    Main problem I see with Sander's proposal is the lack of co-pays. Without them, people will be utilizing medical doctors and facilities far more freely for even minor issues which will put a heavier strain on the government.

    Besides that, we know how the system will be funded. Small details are not needed until this becomes more than a proposal.
    There will probably be a spike in initial use, since people can now go to the doctor and not worry about if their deductible is met or if they've gone more often than their allotted checkups per year.

    That will dwindle down as people start going in for more regular preventative treatment, which will of course increase overall health and reduce the need to go in more often, and reduce the need and number of people going in for major issues down the road.

    Personally, I agree that there should be some small co-pay, 10-25 something like that, perhaps waived if your income is below a certain threshold.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellboi View Post
    Sanders should retire, he is old, crazy!
    Sad! Low energy! Fake news! Crooked Hillary!

    I don't know any other weird Trumpisms to yell at people when I don't have an argument, sorry.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    That's more of an education/awareness issue than a co-pay issue. Folks need to realize that you don't need to go to the ER for a minor laceration on your finger, going to your doctor or somewhere like an urgent care facility is far more appropriate as it's both the kind of thing they're there for (non-emergencies) and it's far cheaper for all involved. It's something that many ER's began seeing after the ACA was put in full effect and folks who never had health care all of a sudden did.

    For those of us who have had health care the whole time, it's a no-brainer issue and many of us are pretty familiar with the ins/outs of the health care system (especially if you've had family who have been sick/injured frequently). For folks who aren't familiar with it, there's a lot of education needed to help those folks make the best, most effective (in all senses) use of the health care system both for their own personal benefit and for the benefit of the system as a whole.
    And yet, ER overutilization by Medicaid recipients has been a huge problem for decades before the ACA. I fail to see how this will be much different.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellboi View Post
    Sanders should retire, he is old, crazy!
    He's in the same age group as Trump and you worship him.

  8. #28
    The Unstoppable Force Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    How to fund:

    1. Cut defense. Use that.

    2. Tax the rich. Use that.

    Seriously, there's no reason why the richest nation in the world can't have single payer healthcare when every other first world nation has it.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    How to fund:

    1. Cut defense. Use that.

    2. Tax the rich. Use that.

    Seriously, there's no reason why the richest nation in the world can't have single payer healthcare when every other first world nation has it.
    Take subsidies from insurance, since they won't be needed anymore, also.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    How to fund:

    1. Cut defense. Use that.

    2. Tax the rich. Use that.

    Seriously, there's no reason why the richest nation in the world can't have single payer healthcare when every other first world nation has it.
    To be clear while their may be good reasons to cut defence spending and tax the rich paying for healthcare isnt one of them. When you tie every social policy to tax cuts or spending cuts you never get anything done. The truth is, and this is acknowledged by actual people in power constantly, the US government can fund any program it likes without taxation or spending cuts to other parts of the government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
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  11. #31
    The biggest problem republicans have on this issue is they are forced to lie in order to attack the concept. This is because a few dozen countries have better healthcare systems than the US and most of them have some version of single payer. Also, millions of americans know and love medicare.

    It's important that everyone on the left not get tired of calling them out on their lies whether it's in person or online.

  12. #32
    While it doesn't say, it most likely means they single payer comes out of ones taxes instead of paying premiums, doctor visits, minimums, prescriptions, etc... Thus it completely does away with health insurance unless someone wants to pay for their own privatized.

    That's how it should work at least. And I'll admit I'm a big proponent of it for the simple reason that healthcare for profit has essentially proven to be a disaster and getting worse. Simple examples, Epipen being bought out and cost raised by 5000% percent, Skrelli doing the shit he does because he can. Further that in regards to some of these cases, there are actually foreign companies with perfectly good drugs that counter these for a fraction of the price but big pharma won't allow them, or fight with the FDA about letting them in the country because it would kill their monopoly on that specific medicine for that specific issue. It's really one of the few places where monopolies are allowed to run free and it's too the detriment of patients and even insurance companies.

    Further problems are that for profit, and this still goes back to big pharma, is that medicine isn't working as it should. Meaning, it's not about curing the sick, it's about masking symptoms and treating said symptons instead of actually curing anything. Did you know, for example, that there are a few things out there for asthma that no one really knows about. 1) There is a cure, Great Britain is supposed to be distributing it, as least last I checked. But you won't hear about it in the USA. They'd rather try and control the symptoms and keep you on $500 a month asthma meds and inhalers. 2) and along those same lines, one of the best actual treatments for asthma, Vitamin D. When was the last time your asthma doctor told you to take more vitamin D? I can say from personal experience, it's the best asthma meds I've ever taken. I went from an inhaler a month for 40ish years to about 1-2 puffs a month.

  13. #33
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    Somehow sanders will say the 1% and wall street pay for it. The reality he can't without taxing the Middle class.
    Secondly why don't we allow the states to hold independent referendum and choose which healthcare they want that way we assess what works what doesn't work. Another option is to just to let the individual decide wether or not they want healthcare or not. Just like you can choose wether or not you want a Roth IRA or savings account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    How to fund:

    1. Cut defense. Use that.

    2. Tax the rich. Use that.

    Seriously, there's no reason why the richest nation in the world can't have single payer healthcare when every other first world nation has it.
    Only two countries have true single payer one is Taiwan the other Canada. Everyone else is some form of national/ socialistic private hybrid healthcare.
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  14. #34
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    And to think, the right has been crying giant crocodile tears about how Hillary cheated Bernie out of the nomination...

    When a big reason he lost was he peddled nice ideas with no real way to implement them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    Read the rest of the thread. One is aloud to make an error..

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    And to think, the right has been crying giant crocodile tears about how Hillary cheated Bernie out of the nomination...

    When a big reason he lost was he peddled nice ideas with no real way to implement them.
    Ridiculous. Of course it can be implemented. Its been done in every other major industrial western nation. To suggest it cant is to suggest the united states is fucking 2nd or 3rd world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
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  16. #36
    Merely a Setback Butter Emails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Ridiculous. Of course it can be implemented. Its been done in every other major industrial western nation. To suggest it cant is to suggest the united states is fucking 2nd or 3rd world.
    I didn't say there weren't methods. It's just that Bernie for one thing didn't even have a plan penned out for implementing these things. He yelled about free college and single payer health care, but at the end of the day guess who took up those flags and carried them even further, laying out planning for both after she won the primary? Hillary. Guess who the Bernie Bros snubbed and just screamed about cheating?

    Fact of the matter is if people wanted those two policies so bad, they would have voted for Hillary. But we also know that only about 15% of the Bernie Bro vote went to Trump, and a lot did abstain. People were too busy screeching about her emails and Benghazi to realize that she and her team had worked out detailed plans for two-year colleges paid, early versions of single payer (and how to pay for it), as well as great ideas for reeducation and retraining of disenfranchised workers.

    But all of that planning and policy that ANYONE could have seen if they'd just LISTENED was lost in the screeching about her emails. Anyone who took up pitchforks for Bernie and didn't listen to a single word from Hillary really should be ashamed. If they were voting on policy, Hillary adopted everything Bernie AND MORE and gave it flesh, not just a skeleton of an idea. Even Bernie backed Hillary.

    But I learned long ago that Bernie Bros who are staunchly anti-Hillary are no better than the cult of Trump.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    Read the rest of the thread. One is aloud to make an error..

  17. #37
    It will certainly mean higher taxes, but in the same breath they need to also say the average person and family will have more money each year. They can't skip it. Every single time they open their mouth about paying for single payer they need to remind everyone that they'll end up with more money in their pocket despite higher taxes.

    Because we know what republicans will do. They will repeat over and over again that taxes are going up. They want to give everyone the impression that having single payer healthcare means they'll all lose money and be poorer which isn't true.

  18. #38
    I mean I think it's pretty obvious how they'll do it.

    Step 1: Raise taxes, this is acceptable because people will no longer be paying hundreds a month for health insurance.
    Step 2: Use that money to fund single payer.

    That was simple enough.

    It's also worth noting that this will reduce costs in a lot of way. For example, right now if you're poor/unemployed/etc. and you're sick you go to the ER because they have to treat you. With single payer you could just go see a regular doctor because you don't need to worry about cost, and that's a *lot* cheaper than going to the ER. Another example would be if you have constant pain somewhere, you might ignore it for a while because you can't afford to go to the doctor until it becomes really bad, but at that point the treatment might be surgery or something instead of medication, which again would be way more expensive.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    It will certainly mean higher taxes, but in the same breath they need to also say the average person and family will have more money each year. They can't skip it. Every single time they open their mouth about paying for single payer they need to remind everyone that they'll end up with more money in their pocket despite higher taxes.

    Because we know what republicans will do. They will repeat over and over again that taxes are going up. They want to give everyone the impression that having single payer healthcare means they'll all lose money and be poorer which isn't true.
    No, a majority or strong plurality of people get strongly subsidized insurance through an employer. Do you really think that their salary will go up since business expense goes down? I don't. Far more likely that taxes go up, but salary stays the same.

  20. #40
    Herald of the Titans Blade Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    It will certainly mean higher taxes, but in the same breath they need to also say the average person and family will have more money each year. They can't skip it. Every single time they open their mouth about paying for single payer they need to remind everyone that they'll end up with more money in their pocket despite higher taxes.

    Because we know what republicans will do. They will repeat over and over again that taxes are going up. They want to give everyone the impression that having single payer healthcare means they'll all lose money and be poorer which isn't true.
    Pretty much, https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/ that explains how it will be paid for and if you read it says in the long run you will save money.
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