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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    yes they dont count as healers, they count as supports.

    Junkrat is an assassin because his focus is on damage and creating oppurtunities for damage.

    Specialists are unconventional heroes without a pre-defined role or focus that aligns with the other roles
    Yea, many specialists can focus on damage, Nazeebo, Sylvanas, Sgt. Hammer also could be assassins with your definition. For me specialists are characters with great waveclear and push dmg. Junkrats attacks are aoe so he has great waveclear and has long range attacks which are great to push. For me he is more mobile version of Sgt. Hammer. Splash dmg, long range attacks, skill to escape, skill to root/displace.
    Last edited by skorpio; 2017-10-12 at 06:34 PM.

  2. #62
    Legendary! Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piethepiegod View Post
    It only had a 4 second cool down if only he is hit by it so if your on top of him he'll still have the full cool down. It has counter play unlike the other two. Not that bad.
    His range is so unbelievably obscene that he can bomb-jump away long before anyone can engage on top of him, outside of Tyrael and Illidan ults.

    Which, if happens to him, results in him detonating the bomb under himself anyway, knocking himself to safety and the enemy away for the same net result.

    It's fucking stupid
    Last edited by Nikkaszal; 2017-10-13 at 12:31 AM.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by skorpio View Post
    Yea, many specialists can focus on damage, Nazeebo, Sylvanas, Sgt. Hammer also could be assassins with your definition. For me specialists are characters with great waveclear and push dmg. Junkrats attacks are aoe so he has great waveclear and has long range attacks which are great to push. For me he is more mobile version of Sgt. Hammer. Splash dmg, long range attacks, skill to escape, skill to root/displace.
    This is not a matter of opinion. Junkrat is wholely intended for damage and enabling damage while other roles he can perform are secondary or a result of the above. Other assassins and warriors can wave clear too.

    There are specialists who can focus on doing plenty of damage but it is not their primary definition in general and their ability/talent design follows suit. They can have an unconventional design like abathur/vikings or are simply not focused on primarily fulfiling a certain specific role. Medivh is closer to the support spectrum but is not a support for example.

    in the end junkrat unloads enormous damage on enemies, has additional abilities and talents to enable this and everything else is a result of his ability to do so
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2017-10-13 at 09:45 AM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    This is not a matter of opinion. Junkrat is wholely intended for damage and enabling damage while other roles he can perform are secondary or a result of the above. Other assassins and warriors can wave clear too.

    There are specialists who can focus on doing plenty of damage but it is not their primary definition in general and their ability/talent design follows suit. They can have an unconventional design like abathur/vikings or are simply not focused on primarily fulfiling a certain specific role. Medivh is closer to the support spectrum but is not a support for example.

    in the end junkrat unloads enormous damage on enemies, has additional abilities and talents to enable this and everything else is a result of his ability to do so
    Well, Sgt. Hammer is wholely intended for dmg too. She doesn't have othar purpose than tons of dmg. But u can tell she has unique design. And what about Sylvanas? Nothing special in her, her kit could be assassin one, but one small thing labels her as specialist - her trait (which is intended to siege dmg). At release Sylvanas was called more assassin than a specialist. Anyway you have official definition of specialist here http://eu.battle.net/heroes/en/game/hero-roles/

    "Armed with diverse skills to shape and control the flow of the game, Specialist heroes can lock down a lane or capture mercenary camps on their own, summon minions, quickly return to the fight if they’re defeated, or make it easier for their team to assault forts by drawing fire or temporarily disabling enemy towers."
    As u can see Medivh doesn't suit specialist role and I explained earlier why. To avoid situation in QM when one team has Medivh as solo support and second team has Morales/Malfurion etc. (like it was with underwhelming Tassadar).
    And Junkrat can control the lane (aoe dmg), assault forts (long range), quickly return to fight (rocket ulti) (no idea he can solo camps but I will check it later). And his assassin feature - dmg burst, is locked in one weird, avoidable skillshot (with 4 charges and 12 sec cd).

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by skorpio View Post
    Well, Sgt. Hammer is wholely intended for dmg too. She doesn't have othar purpose than tons of dmg. But u can tell she has unique design. And what about Sylvanas? Nothing special in her, her kit could be assassin one, but one small thing labels her as specialist - her trait (which is intended to siege dmg). At release Sylvanas was called more assassin than a specialist. Anyway you have official definition of specialist here http://eu.battle.net/heroes/en/game/hero-roles/

    "Armed with diverse skills to shape and control the flow of the game, Specialist heroes can lock down a lane or capture mercenary camps on their own, summon minions, quickly return to the fight if they’re defeated, or make it easier for their team to assault forts by drawing fire or temporarily disabling enemy towers."
    As u can see Medivh doesn't suit specialist role and I explained earlier why. To avoid situation in QM when one team has Medivh as solo support and second team has Morales/Malfurion etc. (like it was with underwhelming Tassadar).
    And Junkrat can control the lane (aoe dmg), assault forts (long range), quickly return to fight (rocket ulti) (no idea he can solo camps but I will check it later). And his assassin feature - dmg burst, is locked in one weird, avoidable skillshot (with 4 charges and 12 sec cd).
    There are other assassins that can do that too, Kel'Thuzad also has decent waveclear and can return to the battlefield quickly with the appropriate talent. Illidan can solo mercs easily. That doesn't make them specialists.

    Many specialists excel at siege yes, but that is not all they do. They are specialists, because they have a unique twist to their kit (summoning units, rooting yourself do deal a lot of damage, making allies immune and provide insane mobility charging into the enemy team because your death means little, being three heroes in one).

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    His range is so unbelievably obscene that he can bomb-jump away long before anyone can engage on top of him, outside of Tyrael and Illidan ults.

    Which, if happens to him, results in him detonating the bomb under himself anyway, knocking himself to safety and the enemy away for the same net result.

    It's fucking stupid
    he also has a glass jaw and sacrifices a Ton of dmg if he keeps his mine in reserve, almost like the designers know what they are doing or something

    - - - Updated - - -

    ps. the classification of what type of character a character is affects gameplay in no way except what quests you can complete with him

    Blizzard would be the first people to tell you that what 'class' a hero is doesnt matter in the slightest, all that matters is their stats and abilities
    I grew up Horde, and as a proud orc shaman I cant understand these people. "ooh we blew up your city and killed everyone you care about but thats no reason to be angry" "oh we destroyed your entire country and murdered your son, but get over it" "Oh we invade foreign countries and melt, torture and mind control our victims but the Alliance were negligent and accidentally sent Tauren into dangerous territory. THEY are the evil ones" The players hate hypocrites more than murderers

  7. #67
    the specialist role is at best arbitrary and usually applies to the strong presence of a gimmick. I would assume Sylv's mob/tower shut down counts her as one, though she can be counted on as a ranged dps with strong waveclear. Her ability to shut down towers and pve mobs however is not a result either way of her good dps. Unlike Junkrat.

  8. #68
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    i always thought of specialist as tools to bring down fortifications without help of regular minions. Junkrat is definitely not one of those.
    So, effectively, if you have to "oh shit minions are gone" retreat from a fort - you are not a specialist. Sylvanas, Azmodan, Hammer, Nazeebo, Probius, Zul, Gazlowe, Zaggara are capable to do this, but Murky, TLV, Abbatur and Medivh can't, because they are simply a different "kind" of specialists who are there to provide almost unstoppable exp leech off lanes.

    Basically i range specialist on a scale from "will blow up buildings if left uncontested" to "will soak exp regardless of wtf you do"
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2017-10-14 at 01:14 PM.
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  9. #69
    Pandaren Monk RH92's Avatar
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    To be honest, I think they are kind of phasing Specialist role away as they mentioned they plan to change role system.

    A lot of Specialists are actually just damage dealers with an unique twist. I think only Abathur, Medivh, TLV and maybe Probius together with Gazlowe are true Specialists as they can influence the way you approach a game or team fights. Rest of them are just niche damage dealers.

  10. #70
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    Let's not forget that Nazeebo is also a specialist, for no apparent reason whatsoever. It's just a pointless role to be honest.

  11. #71
    The onlyy reason i can think of for nazeebo is that each and everyone one of his active abilities involves summoning something to do damage for him. But game wise theres not much distinction between magic missiles delivering the blow and spiders or frogs.

    As the game continues with more and more unique heroes and setups as the devs explore new avenues and ideas as their experience grows, the criteria for specialists will narrow
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2017-10-16 at 08:14 AM.

  12. #72
    Worst thing about a new hero release? I have to play quick match. Holy shit, this is bad.

    Hero's fun though. I don't care if trap build is actually good or not. Chattering Teeth is too hilarious not to pick.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Worst thing about a new hero release? I have to play quick match. Holy shit, this is bad.

    Hero's fun though. I don't care if trap build is actually good or not. Chattering Teeth is too hilarious not to pick.
    I don't remember which stream I was watching yesterday, but they were playing Dragonshire and the enemy Junkrat put a Chattering Teeth trap on top of the shrine. This resulted in their Garrosh running circles around the center of the shrine to cap it while simultaneously avoiding the trap. Was quite funny.

  14. #74
    rocket ride with the level 20 talent is the best thing known to man.. It feels super satisfying even when you miss.

    Especially fun when you do it on top of a nova casting triple tap, a nazeebo using ravenous spirit or in generally in hero that is in a stationary position.. I even scored a kill on a unaware Abathur behind the enemy lines

  15. #75
    Played a few games last night. His range is crazy (even moreso if you choose the "Bit of English talent"). Rocket Ride is great fun was able to use it more than once as an escape. Got one of his legendary skins from a loot crate after my first match on him also which was nice. Going to enjoy messing around with build for him.

  16. #76
    I've played about 30 games with him over the past couple of days and I can confidently say he'll be getting buffs in the future.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by flexks View Post
    I've played about 30 games with him over the past couple of days and I can confidently say he'll be getting buffs in the future.
    Ton of hero damage, ton of wave clear, can split push like a specialist, and with Ripper Air and Rocket Ride, becomes really difficult to take down...after playing him myself I can confidently say if he gets anything it won't be buffs.
    Last edited by Stormcall; 2017-10-20 at 02:25 AM.

  18. #78
    Herald of the Titans Daws001's Avatar
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    I was excited to play Junkrat, only to remember that I don't play him much in OW, and wasn't loving him here. That was with the frag build. Kind of blah. Now the trap build...love it!

  19. #79
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    Ton of hero damage, ton of wave clear, can split push like a specialist, and with Ripper Air and Rocket Ride, becomes really difficult to take down...after playing him myself I can confidently say if he gets anything it won't be buffs.
    We left him for 4 minutes on lane uncontested... he managed to take down towers and a gate. Not really "can split push like specialist", yeah, he kills creeps fast, but he is no threat as specialist is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
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  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    Ton of hero damage, ton of wave clear, can split push like a specialist, and with Ripper Air and Rocket Ride, becomes really difficult to take down...after playing him myself I can confidently say if he gets anything it won't be buffs.
    Play Zeratul, delete him.

    Absolutely nothing Junkrat can do vs. Zeratul.
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