WoW: The RPG Without Customization

[syar]

I always wonder wether trading customization and rpg elements for balance and convenience leads to more subscribers. I don't really think so. Also I do think that listening to the players sometimes backfires. People will whine literally about everything and you are fighting a loosing battle when you do this. Your attitude should be like " I listen to constructive criticism but this is my game so fuck it , we will do it my way ".

[xanzul]

The glyphs are sorely missed. I had one on my Warlock that made her look partly like a demon with wings and horns that was fantastic for RP.

What on earth are you talking about? Glyphs are all cosmetic now. So you dont have one specific glyph now and that means there are no glyphs that allow customization? I'm really starting to think most of you are trolling.

[Deleted]

Again customization is hardly a key component of what makes a game an RPG. I really have to wonder if you people have ever actually played ANY game other than wow.

I don't think you know what an rpg is. The current game is an action adventure game. It's close to a game like Zelda.

[Taeldorian]

Can't really argue. What you're saying is fact not opinion (about certain elements being removed). I also think that it's fairly unhealthy for the game that a few of those elements that you listed have been added back but as RNG on top of already existing RNG.

I think reforging would definitely be nice. It was a popular system in MOP and now that hit/expertise is gone it can actually benefit you even if the piece of gear you got is bad but 10-15 ilvls higher. Hopefully this comes back someday.

[xanzul]

I always wonder wether trading customization and rpg elements for balance and convenience leads to more subscribers. I don't really think so. Also I do think that listening to the players sometimes backfires. People will whine literally about everything and you are fighting a loosing battle when you do this. Your attitude should be like " I listen to constructive criticism but this is my game so fuck it , we will do it my way ".

Customization isn't the only RPG element or even one of the most important ones.

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I don't think you know what an rpg is. The current game is an action adventure game. It's close to a game like Zelda.

Um what? If a game has action in it then it isn't an RPG? What exactly is it you think you should do in an RPG? Stare at your pretty character the whole time?

For those of you blatantly lying or trolling I'm going to leave this here for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

[Deleted]

Um what? If a game has action in it then it isn't an RPG? What exactly is it you think you should do in an RPG? Stare at your pretty character the whole time?

A game like Borderlands is more rpg than current WoW.
You have proper talent trees that impact the straight up power of your abilities and your character. You also have real choices how you want to play. Playing a retri paladin or havoc demon hunter hardly leaves you with any choices. You just have to play how its meant to be played by Blizzard.

[SoulSoBreezy]

-Removal of Hybrid Talents
-Removal of Talent Trees
-Removal of Gems in every piece of gear and Meta gem
-Removal of Glyphs
-Removal of Reforging
-PvP Templates
-Artifact Weapon (same skills for everyone)

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Anyone else feels sad about the fact that "Customization" is frowned upon by Blizzard?

I strongly feel that their direction came from the apparent need to min/max, fueled by how easy it is for players these days to look up the "optimal" way to play. There's a strong influence that pushed WoW's gameplay from "roleplay" to "high score," and I mostly blame sites like warcraft logs for it. Even if there was a ton of customization, there'd just be an influential part of the community that breaks it all down into the optimal build.
In turn, Blizzard feels compelled to balance classes and specs within a certain range, which is hard enough to do, but also makes sacrifices.

There are a lot of ways to go about changing this while still moving forward and not backward (reforging, how mundane). I proposed revamping the talent system again to make our choices affect our gearing and gameplay choices change much more drastically than now.

[grexly75]

I find it interesting how people claim that the game has is not an RPG when by definition it still is..

Let's break it down:

R=Role, which we all are doing in the game..

P=Playing, we are playing that role in the game..

G=Game, well it is still a game unless something has changed since the last time I logged in..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

"A role-playing game (sometimes spelled roleplaying game[1][2] and abbreviated to RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[3] Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines."

[Echocho]

Yes it's so damned dull. It's almost like playing a MOBA or at the very least a ARPG like Diablo3. I guess we should thank the lord we still get to choose the race and look of our character.

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I find it interesting how people claim that the game has is not an RPG when by definition it still is..

Let's break it down:

R=Role, which we all are doing in the game..

P=Playing, we are playing that role in the game..

G=Game, well it is still a game unless something has changed since the last time I logged in..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

"A role-playing game (sometimes spelled roleplaying game[1][2] and abbreviated to RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[3] Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines."

Oh shut up

[Lorgar Aurelian]

A game like Borderlands is more rpg than current WoW.
You have proper talent trees that impact the straight up power of your abilities and your character. You also have real choices how you want to play. Playing a retri paladin or havoc demon hunter hardly leaves you with any choices. You just have to play how its meant to be played by Blizzard.

Ya no have you ever played borderlands? A lot of the skills in the talent trees are comptly useless if you want to play on a high difficulty and 99% of the guns in the game are un useiable.

[Deleted]

I completely agree.

I would also add the the homogenization of professions could be added to your list. I miss fully fleshed out profession trees, with profession specific bonuses to reward your effort.

Don't forget generic reagents. Old (very old) recipes required different reagents, including items gained from other professions. Now its just all generic and dull. Also profession levels are now meaningless.

Imagine if recipes had different items, such as items from dungeons or specific mobs. What would happen? People would go out to do those dungeons or kill specific mobs. If its tradable, people who want to make gold would participate in that too.

Imagine if recipes didn't start at skill 1, but required you learning profession. What would happen? Old world materials would be meaningful again, giving reason to visit old content. It would take time to level up profession (oh the horror of not having instant rewards). Lazy players who want everything instantly would be lazy and whine, as they do, but players who actually like professions would love that. Being able to craft something would require learning how to use profession.

[grexly75]

Yes it's so damned dull. It's almost like playing a MOBA or at the very least a ARPG like Diablo3. I guess we should thank the lord we still get to choose the race and look of our character.

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Oh shut up

Oh that's nice so not allowed to have an opinion and that as soon as I point something out and you start with being rude and insulting, this what I have come to expect from these forums..

[Deleted]

Customization isn't the only RPG element or even one of the most important ones.

But its one of elements. Not having that element makes game linear, shallow and dull.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yes it's so damned dull. It's almost like playing a MOBA or at the very least a ARPG like Diablo3. I guess we should thank the lord we still get to choose the race and look of our character.

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Oh shut up

Wow has never been a real rpg you have never been able to make story choices or really role play in the actual game play at all. The most they have ever had was picking a profession line. Compare any time period in wow to say fallout new vages or a recent example dinvity original sin 2 being able to pick a talent tree and a profession quest line does not make it a real rpg where you can make choices that effect the world and the story.

[MoanaLisa]

Much of what has been lost that was really important for character skill customization was lost long ago for the sake of "Bring the Player, Not the Class". They might unwind that over time and they might not. I wish they would but there are powerful player metas in existence that make it difficult and for which there is great resistance when they try.

Players do as much to remove avenues for customization as developers being honest about it. I would love to see more in the way of personalizing and customization for characters in the cosmetic sense but the main guys (and they are all guys at the top as far as I know) have a mindset that all of that is secondary to progression and what they view as "what's important" to the game (raiding and PVP). It's a strange and not a great place for them to be but that's how it is.

Anything in the game that doesn't affect player power is viewed by many as garbage and the requirements for balancing and attempting to make everyone viable at a high raid difficulty or PVP level push classes into a place where the more balanced they are the less that can be done with them. Hence limited customization available in PVE and things like templates in PVP. Players by constantly complaining about balance asked for that to happen. The forum ideal of balance--and I see this all the time--would make classes and specs largely irrelevant. Whatever their role they would largely do the same things mechanically. That's exactly the end result of the homogenization that underlies "Bring the Player, Not the Class" and it won't easily be unwound. A lot of people hate the homogenization but they seem to dislike even more the asymmetry that throws classes out of balance when they don't all do the exact same thing.

[Deleted]

Ya no have you ever played borderlands? A lot of the skills in the talent trees are comptly useless if you want to play on a high difficulty and 99% of the guns in the game are un useiable.

that doesn't change anything. you are talking about balance and not game design.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

But its one of elements. Not having that element makes game linear, shallow and dull.

Wow has never had most rpg eleamants it has always been linear but I wouldn't say shallow which I would agree the cata changes didn't make it shallower. But dull is an option not a fact.

[GutsAP]

That's what happens when you cater to the masses, you have to dumb everything down.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

that doesn't change anything. you are talking about balance and not game design.

It changes quite a bit if an rpg has weapons that can't kill any thing and don't interact with the world in any way they might as well not exist. For example in divinity original sin there are Wands that interact with the world or only creant enemy's but over all have such poor stats there unless other wise, borderlands doesn't have this for 99% of weapons they are just dead weight in the game with no meaning or use if you get a grey gun at max level it will never be useful so it might as well not exist.

[Cwimge]

I completly agree. That's why I quit FFXIV, it has none of those, therefore its not even an RPG, its apparently closer to an FPS.

jrpgs are walking simulators at best.