What is my friend doing wrong?

[Zephre]

Hello Mages, I'm looking for some assistance in understanding what my friend might be doing wrong. He's a new player (the last few months) and I've tried pointing him in the direction of Icyveins, Wowhead and even Methods guides but nothing seems to work, I'm not to knowledgeable with Mages so I cannot help him much but I'm hoping one of you can.

I'm certain part of the issue is him likely messing up the rotation and the rest being not having good legendaries, below is the link from our alt/main normal raid earlier this evening, can anyone take a look and let me know what he might be doing wrong? His name is emmaswan. I posted this on the WoW EU forums as well but they're practically dead and I'm unlikely to get any assistance.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kRj8TCcVMYDBJPd7

[mrgreenthump]

not having good legendaries

Pretty much this.

Those legendaries are horrible. Also has no 4 set.. Seems like your expectations are too high.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

His talents are wrong, tell him to go there https://www.altered-time.com/forum/
Check logs for each boss what are top talents for each boss.

[Sergio]

Talents are wrong, rotation is wrong, no 4pc, leggos suck (this is huge for fire). I hate icy veins but it is at least a step in the right direction, but he clearly hasn't read any of it. Fire rotation isn't hard but it does take practice to get used to. Honestly he should probably just go frost; the rotation is a joke, the dmg is about the same or better most of the time, its less leggo dependent, etc.

[Kimpan]

I had equal gear to him. Did around the same DPS. Decided to fuck fiire and I went frost. Did 300k more dps with no crucible, not optimized gear (42 % crit vs 33 % cap) and so on.

I saw people with bracers, but 15 ilvl under me, doing more dps than me.

So Im gonna stay frost until I get bracers for fire atleast or something....

[Hctaz]

Pretty much this.

Those legendaries are horrible. Also has no 4 set.. Seems like your expectations are too high.

Legendary items and 4 pc are not going to fix him. His overall percentiles will go up, but his item level percentiles are absolutely awful. My alt warlock with only portal pants and no tier was still capable of getting 80th+ percentiles in my item level bracket. He's clearly not playing the spec very well elsewhere.

[munkeyinorbit]

Legendary items and 4 pc are not going to fix him. His overall percentiles will go up, but his item level percentiles are absolutely awful. My alt warlock with only portal pants and no tier was still capable of getting 80th+ percentiles in my item level bracket. He's clearing not playing the spec very well elsewhere.

This is not a thread about how great you are. This is a thread about how to improve OP performance.

[Hctaz]

This is not a thread about how great you are. This is a thread about how to improve OP performance.

Let's see: I counter the false argument that his dps is just bad because of poor legendary items and a lack of set items by giving my take on it from personal experience, and then inform OP that his friend is probably not playing the spec properly. Seems 100% accurate to the thread.

[mrgreenthump]

Legendary items and 4 pc are not going to fix him. His overall percentiles will go up, but his item level percentiles are absolutely awful. My alt warlock with only portal pants and no tier was still capable of getting 80th+ percentiles in my item level bracket. He's clearing not playing the spec very well elsewhere.

That's great and all, but we aren't talking about Warlocks. He would gain around 25% dps with proper legendaries and completing the 4 set. So taking a boss like Sisters, where player skill has little effect, would put his itemlevel dps to around 70 percentile, while not awesome, it's perfectly acceptable when comparing to the rest of the raid.

And yes, he isn't playing well, but the whole raid is quite a bit below average, so I was just pointing out the obvious reasons.

[Hctaz]

That's great and all, but we aren't talking about Warlocks. He would gain around 25% dps with proper legendaries and completing the 4 set. So taking a boss like Sisters, where player skill has little effect, would put his itemlevel dps to around 70 percentile, while not awesome, it's perfectly acceptable when comparing to the rest of the raid.

And yes, he isn't playing well, but the whole raid is quite a bit below average, so I was just pointing out the obvious reasons.

I mean... I don't really think that legendary items and 4 pc is going to increase his overall dps by 25% but I could be wrong. Maybe both in combination I guess I could see being a factor. But regardless of that: My point is that he can easily achieve the same level of damage by changing talents and playstyle without the need for gear.

There are obviously some weak links but OP doesn't feel like those are the issue. He wants to know why his fire mage friend is getting pooped on and my advice is to just have him practice and do some research.

[munkeyinorbit]

Let's see: I counter the false argument that his dps is just bad because of poor legendary items and a lack of set items by giving my take on it from personal experience, and then inform OP that his friend is probably not playing the spec properly. Seems 100% accurate to the thread.

Normal people read it as "YOU are a bad OP. Look at me, I am so awesome because I am one of the better players with gear that sucks". OP asked for help, not your dick waving.

[Aggrophobic]

Legendary items and 4 pc are not going to fix him. His overall percentiles will go up, but his item level percentiles are absolutely awful. My alt warlock with only portal pants and no tier was still capable of getting 80th+ percentiles in my item level bracket. He's clearly not playing the spec very well elsewhere.

Did you just come here to brag or?

[Hctaz]

Normal people read it as "YOU are a bad OP. Look at me, I am so awesome because I am one of the better players with gear that sucks". OP asked for help, not your dick waving.

OP asked for help for his friend, not him. He can take the information I gave him and use it how he likes. And no. Normal people will see it as "Oh gee, it's possible to do well without that gear. I should tell him that he can improve and show him a guide or something"

There's no point in saying the exact same things as everybody else in the thread. I gave my take on it by using any information available to me at the time: That I know from experience you don't need gear to do well. You should stop projecting your thoughts and emotions on my words, since I've stated that my reasons have nothing to do with bragging.

- - - Updated - - -

Did you just come here to brag or?

If you think that's bragging then I feel sorry for you. You must have a lot of enemies that you've made from projecting your own opinions onto their words.

I've already made a couple of posts explaining things. I gave anecdotal evidence that you don't need legendary items or set bonuses to do well for you item level so his friend doesn't think he's just unlucky and wallow in the "RNG fucked me" mentality. Living in the mentality of "Oh, I just don't have the right gear" is not the best way to fix your damage when you're sitting in high gray/low green percentiles for your item level. If he took the information to his friend that acquiring better legendary items and getting 4pc would solve his problems then his friend would never seek to improve his damage through skill and he wouldn't actually improve all that much.

[Aggrophobic]

OP asked for help for his friend, not him. He can take the information I gave him and use it how he likes. And no. Normal people will see it as "Oh gee, it's possible to do well without that gear. I should tell him that he can improve and show him a guide or something"

There's no point in saying the exact same things as everybody else in the thread. I gave my take on it by using any information available to me at the time: That I know from experience you don't need gear to do well. You should stop projecting your thoughts and emotions on my words, since I've stated that my reasons have nothing to do with bragging.

- - - Updated - - -



If you think that's bragging then I feel sorry for you. You must have a lot of enemies that you've made from projecting your own opinions onto their words.

I've already made a couple of posts explaining things. I gave anecdotal evidence that you don't need legendary items or set bonuses to do well for you item level so his friend doesn't think he's just unlucky and wallow in the "RNG fucked me" mentality. Living in the mentality of "Oh, I just don't have the right gear" is not the best way to fix your damage when your sitting in high gray/low green percentiles for your item level. If he took the information to his friend that acquiring better legendary items and getting 4pc would solve his problems then his friend would never seek to improve his damage through skill and he wouldn't actually improve all that much.

That attitude will hold you back in life...

[Halicia]

There's no point in saying the exact same things as everybody else in the thread. I gave my take on it by using any information available to me at the time: That I know from experience you don't need gear to do well.

That really doesn't address the OP at all though, its just you saying "I'm l33t, he should be like me!".

Your assertion that having BiS legendaries doesn't affect your ilvl percentile is completely wrong as well. It doesn't affect your ILVL... which by definition gives you a significant edge over those with nothing more than a stat stick.... which may not even be worth it for stats currently.

[Zephre]

As I mentioned there was a lot of crappy geared alts on the raid last night but my friend isn't an alt, that's his main.

So the rotation seems to be a problem along with gear, I suspected this but given i haven't played fire I'm unsure what he's doing wrong with it, is he incorrectly using phoenix flames/fire blast? Not enough pyros? I had hoped the logs could help identify the issue.

Thanks for the responses thus far though.

[Deleted]

Hello, here a some things he/she could work on improving :

• His stats are terrible, he's gemming/enchanting full crit, but we are not in 7.0 anymore and crit is (according to simulationcraft) the worst stat for his character :
  https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...t8cS967MRej8a2
• With propers stats (lot less crit) you would then change your talent to Firestarter and flame on resulting in a even bigger dps increase (dont change them now they are only better for the char with more haste and less crit)
• I see two flamestrike casts on sisters, you should only start to use flamestrike with 4+ targets without flamepatch talent.
• I see zero Phoenix Flammes casts during his combustions, you want to use all your Pheonix flames / Fire Blast to generate as much instant pyros as possible during combust
• He should also use meteor during combustion so its garanteed crit, either cast it, then combust so you gain one GCD during combust or even cast it during combust its better than casting it ouside.
• Only 4 shimmers and zero scorchs but some time was spent not casting, movement management is a big part of your dps as a mage, you have tools, use them

And yeah ofc 4pc and better leggos would be better but improving what I noted above would result in bigger dps increase than any leggo and/or 4pc.

Cheers

[Fiftyonred]

Hello, here a some things he/she could work on improving :

• His stats are terrible, he's gemming/enchanting full crit, but we are not in 7.0 anymore and crit is (according to simulationcraft) the worst stat for his character :
  https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...t8cS967MRej8a2
• With propers stats (lot less crit) you would then change your talent to Firestarter and flame on resulting in a even bigger dps increase (dont change them now they are only better for the char with more haste and less crit)
• I see two flamestrike casts, you should only start to use flamestrike with 4+ targets without flamepatch talent.
• I see zero Phoenix Flammes casts during his combustions, you want to use all your Pheonix flames / Fire Blast to generate as much instant pyros as possible during combust
• He should also use meteor during combustion so its garanteed crit, either cast it, then combust so you gain one GCD during combust or even cast it during combust its better than casting it ouside.
• Only 4 shimmers and zero scorchs but some time was spent not casting, movement management is a big part of your dps as a mage, you have tools, use them

And yeah ofc 4pc and better leggos would be better but improving what I noted above would result in bigger dps increase than any leggo and/or 4pc.

Cheers

Now THAT'S how you contribute to a post. Nicely done, dude.

[Zephre]

Hello, here a some things he/she could work on improving :

• His stats are terrible, he's gemming/enchanting full crit, but we are not in 7.0 anymore and crit is (according to simulationcraft) the worst stat for his character :
  https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...t8cS967MRej8a2
• With propers stats (lot less crit) you would then change your talent to Firestarter and flame on resulting in a even bigger dps increase (dont change them now they are only better for the char with more haste and less crit)
• I see two flamestrike casts, you should only start to use flamestrike with 4+ targets without flamepatch talent.
• I see zero Phoenix Flammes casts during his combustions, you want to use all your Pheonix flames / Fire Blast to generate as much instant pyros as possible during combust
• He should also use meteor during combustion so its garanteed crit, either cast it, then combust so you gain one GCD during combust or even cast it during combust its better than casting it ouside.
• Only 4 shimmers and zero scorchs but some time was spent not casting, movement management is a big part of your dps as a mage, you have tools, use them

And yeah ofc 4pc and better leggos would be better but improving what I noted above would result in bigger dps increase than any leggo and/or 4pc.

Cheers

Thanks for the response, I'll let him know.

[Deleted]

Am I reading the log for Harjatan wrong or did he not cast a single Pyroblast with Hot Streak active during that fight?