1. #1
    Deleted

    Horde The Current state of the Horde - Pro, Cons, Future...

    Hello boys and girls and fellow Horde/Alliance Players.
    This thread is going to reflect what i think about the Horde right now, what is wrong, what is right, what could have been done and what MUST be done to still have some relevance for this faction in the future.
    Don't get me wrong, i always felt the Horde got a better spotlight over the allaince just because of the expansions thematics, but now the story is completely different.

    THE HORDE RIGHT NOW
    So let's see what we have here.... the events of Legion certainly did afect the Horde a lot, and not for the better (as of right now), not much from a lore prospective (legion is not finished yet and many stories need to end still), but as a general "feeling".
    Let's start with our racial leaders.
    So... Sylvanas is Warchief! Hoorayy! Well, kinda.
    Sylvanas right nows and even in the past is one of the most charismatic and just well done characters of the Horde, mainly because of her past and history that expand on many games and expansions now.
    She honestly deserve a big spotlight like now, but in terms o how well she is going to unite or lead the Horde i have my doubts.
    I mean she is not famous for being a particulary awsome team-player and the Forsaken were always in the background in the horde, doing their shady things, often to the horror of the other Horde members. So while the Forsaken and Sylvanas are both awsome they never had a lead role like here in Legion. From the story we have seen so far, Sylvanas did NOTHING to unite the Horde or avenge Vol'Jin as she is more interested in "personal" matters with the val'kyr. Where will she go from now? I have no idea but i hope, like vol'jin said, that she will literally come out of the shadows with the forsaken and be a leader like she can be.
    Still overall she is right now the best for the Horde in terms of character development. I also really appreciate that for the second time in a row the Warchief is not an Orc.

    So let's talk about the meat and bone fo the Horde: Orcs.
    You can definetly say that orcs got WAYYY TOO MUCH spotlight in the past. So much that i am sick and tired of them. That said, things went downhill pretty fast for the green guys after Garrosh went berserk. Because as much as you hated or loved Garrosh he did 1 thing right, give importance to the Orcs and the word "Horde" overall. Then if you really are a nostalgic dude like me we have to mention Thrall, he was the real Soul of the Horde back in the days, and his character is great, but he went downhill pretty fast as well after Cataclysm. In my opinion Thrall should have become the new Aspect fo the Earth to replace Neltharion , even if he is not a drake, we have seen what he is capable of doing in that department. Instead blizzard decided for him to abdicate and then he went to pandaria, decided to shove his head for whatever reason, and in general he wasn't anymore a major player.
    This is all to say that right now we have come to Saurfang. Now... Saurfang is a decent pick to lead the horde, but his character is kinda meh still. We need to see more of him (and for god sake please get rid of that atrocious armor and get a new one). SO for now the orcs are a big ?. We will see if during Legion Saurfang will show us something more.
    I personally see him as a honorable warrior, a great warrior, but also like a wise old orc, that have seen many things and can judge with impartiality.
    Otherwise i would always love to see Rexxar back in the horde to lead the orcs (even is he is only half orc).
    If you want to go really crazy, just bring Broxigar back from the dead then, as he is BY FAR the most BADASS individual to ever walk on Azeroth.

    Time to talk about my personal favorite race: TROLLS!
    Oh god... this get really bad here. Vol'Jin as a character had a pretty decent evolution over the years, we cannot negate that. But his "meh" run as Warchief and his lackluster death leaves the trolls with NO RACIAL LEADER. thats right, the Trolls got fked up the *** pretty hard this time.
    Vol'Jin always admired the open minded methods of Thralls, and so i really would have loved to see more interactions beetween him and the Alliance as a whole, but that really didnt happen. So what now for the trolls? If you think about it, there aren't many notable Trolls right now to take his place, as most of the good troll characters either died (R.I.P. Zul'Jin) or are from other tribes.
    My prediction is that until the end of Legion things will remain shitty as fuck for the trolls. With the next expansion we will probably have a rebuilding phase for them, and i would personally pick Rokhan as the new racial leader.
    You may remember him as a hero for Warcraft 3, but is also in WoW. He helped us in Northrend and he was in your Garrison in Draenor. So yeah, he didn't do shit in WoW but at least he has history behind him.
    The other options is to let other Trolls tribe into the Horde and then we can talk about other badass trolls.

    Now... let's talk GOBLINS!
    This is for me the most exciting part when looking a tthe future of the Horde. Gallywix as a character is jsut damn good. He has ton of potential, and oh boy what he is capable of doing to get to his objectives.
    Sadly we have seen very little to none of him, but the fact that he recived a new 3d model makes me wish for the best. Overall the Goblins are incredibly established as an entity in the WoW universe and in the Horde, and they are all over the place, so all we need is a charismatic racial leader and they are ready to go!

    Pandaren time!: Not much to say here. Blizzard droped the ball so fast on these guys before even picking it. Don't get me wrong. The story, and history of pandaria and the pandarens have been DELIGHTFUL to see finally (everyone who played WC3 always wanted to see more of Chen Stormstout).
    But they are so fking anonymous in both the horde or the alliance that they do not even have a guide, or a racial leader. The closest to that is the Pandaren that in the end decide to join the Horde, that is so charismatic that i cannot even remember his fking name! Ji Firepaw or something, i think.
    Jesus christ Blizzard, make this dude do something. As much as neutral as the pandarens can be, if you join the Horde you must have reasons and objectives. Overall shitty ass job from Blizz after Mists of Pandaria in anything Pandaren related.

    Taurens:
    To me at the "core" of the Horde there have been always Orcs, Trolls and Taurens. I feel like in the past those 3 races together formed a really strong bond
    and that's also when maybe the Horde was at his "peak".
    This was proved by the deep friendship between Thrall and Cairne Bloodhoof, To this day still the most badass Tauren we had in recent times.
    Blizz fucked up again with the death of Cairne, not showing it in game, and in general a very bad move because it left the Taurens with a shitty racial leader and from there onwards they always felt "behind" the orcs, unlike when Cairne was alive.
    In game now we have Baine. He has the charisma of a fking dishwashing machine. He literally did 0, over the course of several expansions.
    YOU could literally pick any Tauren in Highmountain and he is more badass then him, HELL EVEN FKING GAMON IS MUCH BETTER THEN HIM.
    So Blizz has 2 choices, either make Bain great, or get rid of him.
    I'm more incline to the second option, because there are mcuh, much better Taurens already "developed".
    I honestly would love to see Hamuul Runetotem leading the Taurens of the Horde, maybe to a "different" horde, or his vision of what the horde could be.

    Finally we have Lor'themar Theron: Considering the amount of time he has been around he rly didn't do much. The msot we have seen of him was during Throne of Thunder, and honeslty... it was great! We definetly need to see more of him, as he has the potential to be a really good leader.
    I jsut think that he got the short end of the stick because Sylvanas is there, and both Forsaken and Belf players kinda look up to her.

    CONCLUSION:
    Unfortunatly, not good. The Horde as a whole right now lack depth and interesting individuals. Only Sylvanas is at the top of her game while all the others are a total mess. There is a lot of promise for Gallywix, but other then that Blizz need to do a lot of work and FAST if you want to bring Horde back on the same level as Alliance right now.


    So hopefully you read this all and you liked it. Please feel free to comment. If you liked this format i may be doing one for the Alliance too ^^!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Macilento View Post
    Hello boys and girls and fellow Horde/Alliance Players.
    This thread is going to reflect what i think about the Horde right now, what is wrong, what is right, what could have been done and what MUST be done to still have some relevance for this faction in the future.
    Don't get me wrong, i always felt the Horde got a better spotlight over the allaince just because of the expansions thematics, but now the story is completely different.

    THE HORDE RIGHT NOW
    So let's see what we have here.... the events of Legion certainly did afect the Horde a lot, and not for the better (as of right now), not much from a lore prospective (legion is not finished yet and many stories need to end still), but as a general "feeling".
    Let's start with our racial leaders.
    So... Sylvanas is Warchief! Hoorayy! Well, kinda.
    Sylvanas right nows and even in the past is one of the most charismatic and just well done characters of the Horde, mainly because of her past and history that expand on many games and expansions now.
    She honestly deserve a big spotlight like now, but in terms o how well she is going to unite or lead the Horde i have my doubts.
    I mean she is not famous for being a particulary awsome team-player and the Forsaken were always in the background in the horde, doing their shady things, often to the horror of the other Horde members. So while the Forsaken and Sylvanas are both awsome they never had a lead role like here in Legion. From the story we have seen so far, Sylvanas did NOTHING to unite the Horde or avenge Vol'Jin as she is more interested in "personal" matters with the val'kyr. Where will she go from now? I have no idea but i hope, like vol'jin said, that she will literally come out of the shadows with the forsaken and be a leader like she can be.
    Still overall she is right now the best for the Horde in terms of character development. I also really appreciate that for the second time in a row the Warchief is not an Orc.

    So let's talk about the meat and bone fo the Horde: Orcs.
    You can definetly say that orcs got WAYYY TOO MUCH spotlight in the past. So much that i am sick and tired of them. That said, things went downhill pretty fast for the green guys after Garrosh went berserk. Because as much as you hated or loved Garrosh he did 1 thing right, give importance to the Orcs and the word "Horde" overall. Then if you really are a nostalgic dude like me we have to mention Thrall, he was the real Soul of the Horde back in the days, and his character is great, but he went downhill pretty fast as well after Cataclysm. In my opinion Thrall should have become the new Aspect fo the Earth to replace Neltharion , even if he is not a drake, we have seen what he is capable of doing in that department. Instead blizzard decided for him to abdicate and then he went to pandaria, decided to shove his head for whatever reason, and in general he wasn't anymore a major player.
    This is all to say that right now we have come to Saurfang. Now... Saurfang is a decent pick to lead the horde, but his character is kinda meh still. We need to see more of him (and for god sake please get rid of that atrocious armor and get a new one). SO for now the orcs are a big ?. We will see if during Legion Saurfang will show us something more.
    I personally see him as a honorable warrior, a great warrior, but also like a wise old orc, that have seen many things and can judge with impartiality.
    Otherwise i would always love to see Rexxar back in the horde to lead the orcs (even is he is only half orc).
    If you want to go really crazy, just bring Broxigar back from the dead then, as he is BY FAR the most BADASS individual to ever walk on Azeroth.

    Time to talk about my personal favorite race: TROLLS!
    Oh god... this get really bad here. Vol'Jin as a character had a pretty decent evolution over the years, we cannot negate that. But his "meh" run as Warchief and his lackluster death leaves the trolls with NO RACIAL LEADER. thats right, the Trolls got fked up the *** pretty hard this time.
    Vol'Jin always admired the open minded methods of Thralls, and so i really would have loved to see more interactions beetween him and the Alliance as a whole, but that really didnt happen. So what now for the trolls? If you think about it, there aren't many notable Trolls right now to take his place, as most of the good troll characters either died (R.I.P. Zul'Jin) or are from other tribes.
    My prediction is that until the end of Legion things will remain shitty as fuck for the trolls. With the next expansion we will probably have a rebuilding phase for them, and i would personally pick Rokhan as the new racial leader.
    You may remember him as a hero for Warcraft 3, but is also in WoW. He helped us in Northrend and he was in your Garrison in Draenor. So yeah, he didn't do shit in WoW but at least he has history behind him.
    The other options is to let other Trolls tribe into the Horde and then we can talk about other badass trolls.

    Now... let's talk GOBLINS!
    This is for me the most exciting part when looking a tthe future of the Horde. Gallywix as a character is jsut damn good. He has ton of potential, and oh boy what he is capable of doing to get to his objectives.
    Sadly we have seen very little to none of him, but the fact that he recived a new 3d model makes me wish for the best. Overall the Goblins are incredibly established as an entity in the WoW universe and in the Horde, and they are all over the place, so all we need is a charismatic racial leader and they are ready to go!

    Pandaren time!: Not much to say here. Blizzard droped the ball so fast on these guys before even picking it. Don't get me wrong. The story, and history of pandaria and the pandarens have been DELIGHTFUL to see finally (everyone who played WC3 always wanted to see more of Chen Stormstout).
    But they are so fking anonymous in both the horde or the alliance that they do not even have a guide, or a racial leader. The closest to that is the Pandaren that in the end decide to join the Horde, that is so charismatic that i cannot even remember his fking name! Ji Firepaw or something, i think.
    Jesus christ Blizzard, make this dude do something. As much as neutral as the pandarens can be, if you join the Horde you must have reasons and objectives. Overall shitty ass job from Blizz after Mists of Pandaria in anything Pandaren related.

    Taurens:
    To me at the "core" of the Horde there have been always Orcs, Trolls and Taurens. I feel like in the past those 3 races together formed a really strong bond
    and that's also when maybe the Horde was at his "peak".
    This was proved by the deep friendship between Thrall and Cairne Bloodhoof, To this day still the most badass Tauren we had in recent times.
    Blizz fucked up again with the death of Cairne, not showing it in game, and in general a very bad move because it left the Taurens with a shitty racial leader and from there onwards they always felt "behind" the orcs, unlike when Cairne was alive.
    In game now we have Baine. He has the charisma of a fking dishwashing machine. He literally did 0, over the course of several expansions.
    YOU could literally pick any Tauren in Highmountain and he is more badass then him, HELL EVEN FKING GAMON IS MUCH BETTER THEN HIM.
    So Blizz has 2 choices, either make Bain great, or get rid of him.
    I'm more incline to the second option, because there are mcuh, much better Taurens already "developed".
    I honestly would love to see Hamuul Runetotem leading the Taurens of the Horde, maybe to a "different" horde, or his vision of what the horde could be.

    Finally we have Lor'themar Theron: Considering the amount of time he has been around he rly didn't do much. The msot we have seen of him was during Throne of Thunder, and honeslty... it was great! We definetly need to see more of him, as he has the potential to be a really good leader.
    I jsut think that he got the short end of the stick because Sylvanas is there, and both Forsaken and Belf players kinda look up to her.

    CONCLUSION:
    Unfortunatly, not good. The Horde as a whole right now lack depth and interesting individuals. Only Sylvanas is at the top of her game while all the others are a total mess. There is a lot of promise for Gallywix, but other then that Blizz need to do a lot of work and FAST if you want to bring Horde back on the same level as Alliance right now.


    So hopefully you read this all and you liked it. Please feel free to comment. If you liked this format i may be doing one for the Alliance too ^^!
    Well Forsakens have Nathanos also who is kind a interesting know that apparently he actually have started feels things like sorrow and regret. Also war crimes had pretty facinating part with Baine and how he could have snapped Sylvanases spine easily when sylvanas pissed him of and Baine grapped her. Though Baine has done little ingame he has done lots in book like tides of war, prelude to cataclysm and war crimes. Also Hamuul have never shown any skill or interest to lead when compared to baine who but up with lot of insolent behaviour from garrosh to protect the taurens. Also Rexxar would have to first lead mok'natal in outland because he is the only son of their leader so it would make no sense to bring him as an leader for the orcs. Also ALL other troll tribes joined with the zandalari and they are led by Zul and Rastakhan, so it is unlikely we would ever get any new trolls now after we have killed All their leaders: Zul'jin, Jin'do, Mandokir, Malakk, Ukorz and many other and Trolls have huge history of racial supremacy and biterness so we kind fucked up their lives so it is nearly imbossible. Only possibility is to bring some zandalari refuge faction or something like that.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Troll and Tauren race need some build-up.

    Apparently Trolls and Taurens are useless these days, and what I mean by that is that they have no siege weaponry and/or powerful individuals.
    Baine is peaceloving hippy-looking cunt. Trolls other than Rokhan or w/e are basically non-existent. If not for NElve glaives we wouldn't even breach Orgrimmar gate @SoO.

    While Ally has MANY HUMANS, worgens which are naturally strong, dwarves who have alot of tech and strength, gnomes which equal goblins but aren't greedy fuckers and actually have some interaction with other faction leaders, night elves who have powerful magic and glaives, ships, ents etc., they also have space goats with sci-fi super-interdimensional-uber-powerful-mega flying ships.

    AND
    since we are already @ the sci-fi level of WoW

    Well... basically Horde being a clump of races that basically are together coz otherwise they would die... yea, no good place for them to be in the modern WoW world, not at all. Only thing keeping them from certain death is Lor'themar & Blood Elves (high arcane proficency, powerful & old individuals, super artifacts) and Sylvanas + her plague.

  4. #4
    There are three issues I see here. The Horde has basically expended all the interesting characters that we've gotten to know and the ones we know are almost completely unused. The second one is that Blizzard stayed too far away from what the Horde was all about, both in terms of the races and the actions, whereas the Alliance is still pretty much doing the same thing it has always been doing despite all the racial additions. The third issue is that people think that the Horde has had too much of orcs in the past few expansions, when that clearly isn't true; just because the expansion was based off orcs hostile towards both the Alliance and the Horde, it doesn't mean the Horde's orcs got a big role to play.

    The first one is clear right off the bat; the only oldschool character from the Warcraft universe which retained the spotlight is Sylvanas. All the others were made up through the course of WoW's history, which is why players didn't manage to connect or affiliate with them enough. In addition to this, all these new characters that the Horde got implemented weren't even Horde-styled characters to begin with, which has resulted in the Horde being all about elves. Throughout Legion the spotlight is taken by the Forsaken and blood elves and in previous expansions these two races have seen the most character, lore and territory additions. This is why the Horde revolves around Sylvanas, Lor'themar, Lliadrin, Aethas, most recently Nathanos and so on. None of these are iconic Horde characters, such as a Mok'nathal hunter, an orcish warrior, a troll shadow priest or a tauren druid.

    There was a huge chance at developing benevolent Horde characters that players are familiar with, such as Rexxar, Saurfang or Rokhan, but none of them saw any character development whatsoever, appart from the occasional appearance here and there. Instead of this and in addition to avoiding this, Cairne got killed off, Thrall got messed up, Vol'jin got killed and the only orcish replacement turned out to result in two entire expansions of evil and trouble, with the same outlook being the case even now with Sylvanas.

    The Alliance on the other hand kept its general direction; new races got added, but they have many familiar characters and they're all pretty much striving towards the same goals, wether it is taking care of nature, following the Light, reclaiming their lands, trying to get revenge on the Horde for something the Horde has done to them or helping tackle a general threat. The Horde on the other hand became disfigured because it lost its general direction; an undead is the warchief and is out to make some more undead caring about itself only, the orcs have no real representation, trolls have even less of it and tauren are sidelined, not to mention the complete absence of ogres. In addition to all of this, the only race actually doing something are the blood elves.

    When you make an undead high elf warchief and pull the entire Horde's narration through the prism of blood elves, players will innevitably feel like this because all those who've gotten to love the Horde over their warriors, their shamanistic theme and their tribal theme are now gone. The Alliance strayed away too from what it was, but not nearly as much as the Horde.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2017-09-20 at 01:33 AM.

  5. #5
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    The Horde has lost 3 warchiefs in a row, and the current one is clearly unfit for the position. In the middle of the Legion invasion, she starts playing hide and seek with the other idiot Genn and pisses off a big Val'kyr, as if she didn't depend on them, literally. The rest of the Horde leaders have no weight of their own yet, although a case could be made for Lor'Themar. But badass as he is, I don't think he can become Warchief without pissing the heck of all the waifu lovers over there.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    There are three issues I see here. The Horde has basically expended all the interesting characters that we've gotten to know and the ones we know are almost completely unused. The second one is that Blizzard stayed too far away from what the Horde was all about, both in terms of the races and the actions, whereas the Alliance is still pretty much doing the same thing it has always been doing despite all the racial additions. The third issue is that people think that the Horde has had too much of orcs in the past few expansions, when that clearly isn't true; just because the expansion was based off orcs hostile towards both the Alliance and the Horde, it doesn't mean the Horde's orcs got a big role to play.

    The first one is clear right off the bat; the only oldschool character from the Warcraft universe which retained the spotlight is Sylvanas. All the others were made up through the course of WoW's history, which is why players didn't manage to connect or affiliate with them enough. In addition to this, all these new characters that the Horde got implemented weren't even Horde-styled characters to begin with, which has resulted in the Horde being all about elves. Throughout Legion the spotlight is taken by the Forsaken and blood elves and in previous expansions these two races have seen the most character, lore and territory additions. This is why the Horde revolves around Sylvanas, Lor'themar, Lliadrin, Aethas, most recently Nathanos and so on. None of these are iconic Horde characters, such as a Mok'nathal hunter, an orcish warrior, a troll shadow priest or a tauren druid.

    There was a huge chance at developing benevolent Horde characters that players are familiar with, such as Rexxar, Saurfang or Rokhan, but none of them saw any character development whatsoever, appart from the occasional appearance here and there. Instead of this and in addition to avoiding this, Cairne got killed off, Thrall got messed up, Vol'jin got killed and the only orcish replacement turned out to result in two entire expansions of evil and trouble, with the same outlook being the case even now with Sylvanas.

    The Alliance on the other hand kept its general direction; new races got added, but they have many familiar characters and they're all pretty much striving towards the same goals, wether it is taking care of nature, following the Light, reclaiming their lands, trying to get revenge on the Horde for something the Horde has done to them or helping tackle a general threat. The Horde on the other hand became disfigured because it lost its general direction; an undead is the warchief and is out to make some more undead caring about itself only, the orcs have no real representation, trolls have even less of it and tauren are sidelined, not to mention the complete absence of ogres. In addition to all of this, the only race actually doing something are the blood elves.

    When you make an undead high elf warchief and pull the entire Horde's narration through the prism of blood elves, players will innevitably feel like this because all those who've gotten to love the Horde over their warriors, their shamanistic theme and their tribal theme are now gone. The Alliance strayed away too from what it was, but not nearly as much as the Horde.
    Yeah pretty much agree with all you said. I am very sad that Blizz poor narrative regarding the Horde (because honestly they are doing a fantastic job with the Alliance) ended up in a big mess. If they don't do something STRONG in the next expansion the Horde will look like a joke, for real.
    And yeah.... still no Ogres... damn you blizz.

  7. #7
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    I think everything could be solved with three words

    Warchief Johnny Awesome

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I think everything could be solved with three words

    Warchief Johnny Awesome
    My vote's on Zen'kiki

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Dragon ANX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    The Horde has lost 3 warchiefs in a row, and the current one is clearly unfit for the position. In the middle of the Legion invasion, she starts playing hide and seek with the other idiot Genn and pisses off a big Val'kyr, as if she didn't depend on them, literally. The rest of the Horde leaders have no weight of their own yet, although a case could be made for Lor'Themar. But badass as he is, I don't think he can become Warchief without pissing the heck of all the waifu lovers over there.
    If you know about Lothemar, you know that he said a 84864767946484 times that he dont want to be the leader of any shit and that he is only temporally leading the BFs because of the love and honor that he has for his race.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    The Horde need to be literally rebuilt from 0. Unfourtunatly, Blizzard like neutral stuff so...

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